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Will there still be a D400 (1 Viewer)

Well Pasquier I hope so. The 300s is a fabulous camera body but obviously getting a bit long in the tooth now. My 300s model is supposedly good for a further 135,000 shutter operations so it will not wear out just yet but I would like to trade it on for the fabled 400 if and when it turns up.

Lets keep hoping the event is not too far away and the Japanese rumour mill has some truth in it.:t:
 
I think the D400 will still happen. Why?
  1. People won't let go of it. the D7100 was only announced a few days ago and I already read many many people's early reaction is that they want more, a full pro DX body, a "mini D4."
  2. The rumors seem persistent that Canon will release the 7DMarkII, and many believe Nikon will not allow that camera to go unmatched.
  3. Although the new D7100 was called the "flagship DX" on some web sites, that was pretty quickly negated, even by Nikon reps. See here: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50901841 Plus Nikon clearly left "room" for a more completely professional DX model above the D7100, although it might bump into the pricing of the entry level FX bodies. So what? The people who want it won't care.
  4. As I said in another post, despite Nikon's disappointing offering of pro DX lenses and bodies, I think APS-C is a legitimate format within the "high end" market, and it isn't quite ready to be relegated entirely over to the compact/mirrorless world. Nikon must be aware of the small segment of the high end dSLR market that won't happily move to FX. I think they just made a calculated decision to make us wait because we are a minority.
Last I heard, the 7DMarkII was rumored for the second half of the year, maybe August or Photokina time. It is encouraging that the Japanese rumor predicts Nikon will not wait that long to announce a D400. We'll see.

--Dave
 
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Dave
I'm not sure we'll see new dx specific lenses, but a new rather a new generation of light weight pro lenses like the 70-200 f4.0, which outperforms its bigger f2.8 counterpart.
What would be nice is a reworked 300mm f4.0 with VR, and perhaps a 400mm f5.6.
It will be interesting to see what the likes of Sigma have in their bag, their latest lenses have been stunning (150mm macro).
Here's hoping for a D400 :)
Cheers, P.
 
Can't see it really if you want a better quality DX body wouldn't you get an FX body. IMHO dx or cropped sensors were nothing more than available technology at the time and I'm sure that Canon & Nikon plus all really wish they'd never been invented. It's fragmented development and created two product lines. Ask yourself as the CEO of a manufacturer do you want to supply dx lenses and bodies that deliver quality equal to the full frame equivalent. If I were holding the purse strings I'd offer a dx line aimed solely at the entry market with a range that offers superb value for money with good quality. For those that love photography whether for pleasure or business support the full frame line. If you used a 35mm slr would you be having this discussion regarding lesser formats, I think not. Dx and FX is no different to DVD or bluray one came along first but won't give you the quality of bluray and is only being sold whilst the market transitions to the better quality variant.
 
Can't see it really if you want a better quality DX body wouldn't you get an FX body. IMHO dx or cropped sensors were nothing more than available technology at the time and I'm sure that Canon & Nikon plus all really wish they'd never been invented. It's fragmented development and created two product lines. Ask yourself as the CEO of a manufacturer do you want to supply dx lenses and bodies that deliver quality equal to the full frame equivalent. If I were holding the purse strings I'd offer a dx line aimed solely at the entry market with a range that offers superb value for money with good quality. For those that love photography whether for pleasure or business support the full frame line. If you used a 35mm slr would you be having this discussion regarding lesser formats, I think not. Dx and FX is no different to DVD or bluray one came along first but won't give you the quality of bluray and is only being sold whilst the market transitions to the better quality variant.

Things could of course go the other way, with sensors improving sufficiently so as to relegate FX to niche status, everybody else--amateur and professional alike--going over to DX. If I had to, this in fact is what I would predict, the advantages of lens miniaturization in particular simply being too great to stick with the larger format once DX reaches a certain quality level. Compare what happened in film photography in yesteryear: 4" x 5" > 2.25" x 2.25" > "full-frame" 35 mm.
 
Possibly but just look at the emphasis on full sensor lenses and the underwhelming enthusiasm on dx lenses, also wouldn't the pro range be cropped sensors?
 
Can't see it really if you want a better quality DX body wouldn't you get an FX body. IMHO dx or cropped sensors were nothing more than available technology at the time and I'm sure that Canon & Nikon plus all really wish they'd never been invented. It's fragmented development and created two product lines. Ask yourself as the CEO of a manufacturer do you want to supply dx lenses and bodies that deliver quality equal to the full frame equivalent. If I were holding the purse strings I'd offer a dx line aimed solely at the entry market with a range that offers superb value for money with good quality. For those that love photography whether for pleasure or business support the full frame line. If you used a 35mm slr would you be having this discussion regarding lesser formats, I think not. Dx and FX is no different to DVD or bluray one came along first but won't give you the quality of bluray and is only being sold whilst the market transitions to the better quality variant.

Steve,
For the most part I agree with you that if you have DX and you want more, it makes sense to upgrade to FX, especially since most of your lenses probably already work on FX. The one special application where I'm not sure it makes quite as much sense is wild bird photography, especially small birds, where most of us already struggle to fill the DX frame with a bird. I already crop most of my bird photos from my DX body. With an FX body I will have to crop even more to get the same image. So why not use DX and let the camera crop for you? With a crop sensor, file size can be smaller, giving faster fps and less "wasted" image. It seems to me they just need to optimize the pixel density on the DX sensor and the processor to maximize the quality of the cropped image. I presume Nikon is trying to design their DX sensors to to the job. That's why I still want a D400. But for most other applications, DX lenses and bodies would never "deliver quality equal to full frame."

I think you're right that the first dSLR's had APS-C sensors simply because they were not ready to give us a full frame sensor at the time, and now we have this DX/FX split, and the "pro" DX line is in doubt. It really looks to me like APS-C is going to move more and more toward smaller mirrorless or rangefinder-sized cameras. I personally really like that trend. I think APS-C is a great format, and worthy to have a place in the pro/high end market. Full frame has become like medium format. Not every serious amateur or professional needs the huge files and poster-sized prints that a D800 can deliver. Small APS-C cameras are already eating into DX SLR sales. So as you said, maybe DX SLR bodies will finally be strictly an "entry level" stepping stone to full frame. I can imagine someday I will sell my heavy FX telephoto lenses and invest in a smaller APS-C system for birds. I think RJM said in another post: pro telephoto lenses designed specifically for APS-C would not have to be big heavy super fast f/2.8 things; they could be much smaller with f/4 or f/5.6 while still matching or exceeding what the big heavy FX telephotos do on DX sensors.

But that super-cool lightweight range of small professional APS-C telephoto lenses isn't out there yet, so I hope Nikon supports "pro DX" SLR's a little longer and gives us the D400! ;) For now, Pasquier is probably right. With APS-C shifting toward the compact/mirrorless market, Nikon will probably not invest much more in pro lenses designed specifically for DX SLR's. In fact the rumor is they are finally going to jump into the compact APS-C/mirrorless game, like Fuji.
 
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I think putting out only 17 DX lenses (some already discontinued and the rest made virtually obsolete by increasing sensor rez) in 14yr history of DX speaks for itself. Just the bare minimum to keep new dslr users pacified, but not enough as the user becomes more advanced forcing an eventual upgrade. Brilliant business model when a customers locked in to your system, but makes for an unnecessary annoying customer experience nonetheless.

IMO, the camera biz is ripe for a disruptive technology waiting to be embraced by customers wanting a better mousetrap and customer experience than we are getting now.
 
I think putting out only 17 DX lenses (some already discontinued and the rest made virtually obsolete by increasing sensor rez) in 14yr history of DX speaks for itself. Just the bare minimum to keep new dslr users pacified, but not enough as the user becomes more advanced forcing an eventual upgrade. Brilliant business model when a customers locked in to your system, but makes for an unnecessary annoying customer experience nonetheless.

IMO, the camera biz is ripe for a disruptive technology waiting to be embraced by customers wanting a better mousetrap and customer experience than we are getting now.

Well, perhaps, but there are a lot of casual wildlife photographers out there who want an easily portable rig not requiring a tripod and for them DX is perfect. I fall this category and would never consider "upgrading" to FX. I'm definitely keeping my eye on 4/3, however.
 
I see that Nikon Rumours had a nice thread and response from Nikon Europe re where the D7100 sits and a possible replacement for the D300s which is not the 7100
 
Can't see it really if you want a better quality DX body wouldn't you get an FX body. IMHO dx or cropped sensors were nothing more than available technology at the time and I'm sure that Canon & Nikon plus all really wish they'd never been invented. It's fragmented development and created two product lines. Ask yourself as the CEO of a manufacturer do you want to supply dx lenses and bodies that deliver quality equal to the full frame equivalent. If I were holding the purse strings I'd offer a dx line aimed solely at the entry market with a range that offers superb value for money with good quality. For those that love photography whether for pleasure or business support the full frame line. If you used a 35mm slr would you be having this discussion regarding lesser formats, I think not. Dx and FX is no different to DVD or bluray one came along first but won't give you the quality of bluray and is only being sold whilst the market transitions to the better quality variant.

Actually IIRC, then Canon only has one full frame camera in its sortiment at the moment, the 5DMkII, the others being various crop modes - it was Nikon that really pushed FX with the D3, D700, D800 and now the D600.

That said, as a D700 user, there are times when a DX body would be useful, hence, my interest in a D7100 or D400.

I think there is room for both.
 
. Compare what happened in film photography in yesteryear: 4" x 5" > 2.25" x 2.25" > "full-frame" 35 mm.

Large format really lost out due to reproduction costs, studio time and corporate budgets and I'm going to write this, decent professional photographers who knew what they were doing. Much missed medium!

I can't see many studio's now spending a whole day to get one shot, its just not viable.

I'm going to disagree with Steve, I think everything is going to get smaller, that's not to say that the reproduction quality will improve with technology, as I don't think it will. It just that expectations are less in the commercial world.

Totally agree with him about FF, the results I'm getting from the D800 are just superb, but I'm from a generation that wants and expects quality images, the up and coming generations want light, easy to use specification, and there's nothing wrong with that ideal, like technology, attitudes move on, and maybe my view is now outdated!
 
Pe'rigin,
As an ex- Hassi shooter I have to agree with you - the expectations and quality of a lot of commercial work is not what it was. There are some brilliant MF shooters using tech gear like the ALPA (e..g Danlindberg.com) - but they are becoming rare.
FX like the D800 does yield very good results and the 50mp D4X will be a hassle for HB, PhaseOne etc when it arrived later this year.
As for todays crowd - many are happy with their iPhone!
 
Actually IIRC, then Canon only has one full frame camera in its sortiment at the moment, the 5DMkII, the others being various crop modes -

Hmm, lets think theres the 5DMkIII the 1Dx and the 1Dc, Canon have plumped completely for FX in the pro stakes, the best cropped sensor body I believe is the 7D
 
I'm going to disagree with Steve, I think everything is going to get smaller, that's not to say that the reproduction quality will improve with technology, as I don't think it will. It just that expectations are less in the commercial world.

Lol many people do ;)

If the body doesn't shrink and I cant see that happening anytime soon then irrespective of the sensor then larger should be better, if a DX sensor was king why wouldn't you just expand the area and hence the pixel count?
I compared shots at the weekend between a D300 and a D700 on the same subject and lens, the D700 was by far the better image, light was pants so maybe not a great day for a comparison.

Still both Nikon and Canon flagship cameras are all full frame and heavily promoted.
What we must all agree on that the consumer market drive the revenues allowing the limited manufacturing run of the high end stuff, this is why all manufacturers push the benefits of the range. Yes if I were a casual photographer then the D7100 would be all I would ever need
 
I don't think we'll ever see a D400 now, for the following reasons: -

1) If Nikon had wanted to, they could easily have created one by now. If they simply put a D7000 sensor in a D300s body, I would probably have bought it.

2) The fact that the D7100 has been announced is an indication that a D400 isn't in the pipeline. If one was being developed, wouldn't Nikon have announced the D400 before or at least at the same time as a sound marketing strategy, like the D800 was announced months before the D600. D600 and D7100 sales are now replacing potential D400 sales.

3) It's getting late in the day, D300 and D300s users aren't going to wait forever. Some will move over to FX, others will go for the D7000, or D7100. Others will change system. If there's any truth in the rumours, then the Canon mkII is going to mop up a lot of D300 users. I'll probably be temped myself.
 
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