"Mystery grey shrike on the isle of Man" (1 Viewer)

CJW

Hit-and-run WUM

• Jun 17, 2003

• #1

Mystery 'Grey Shrike' on the Isle of Man

All, this shrike was found at The Ayres NNR this afternoon. Initial thoughts were that it was a Great Grey (and several people still think so), but after a couple of hours watching it, I think it may be a Steppe Grey Shrike (Lanius meridionalis pallidirostris). Given the recent influx of eastern goodies, it's credentials couldn't be better. The bird showed huge amounts of white both in the wing and tail and at certain angles a narrow white band crossed the forehead.
Any thoughts?

 

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Last edited: Jun 20, 2003

P

peteh

Well-known member

• Jun 17, 2003

• #2

heres the back end
if its of any use.

 

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Michael Frankis

conehead

• Jun 17, 2003

• #3

Just checked up in Lefranc & Worfolk, and (sorry to say!) it is definite Great Grey, race excubitor.

A pallidirostris would have a pale beak (that's what 'pallidirostris' means!), a much larger white primary patch, and (usually) pale lores with the black cheek not running up to the bill.

Michael

 

CJW

Hit-and-run WUM

• Jun 18, 2003

• #4

Those features are certainly on 1st Winter birds Michael, but a search on Google against Steppe Grey Shrike produces several images of adult birds without any of them. I don't think it's that cut and dried at the moment.

 

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peteh

Well-known member

• Jun 18, 2003

• #5

some more pics

 

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Michael Frankis

conehead

• Jun 18, 2003

• #6

Hi CJ,

I checked google and all the pics (all 7 of them!!) showed birds with pale bills, or at least largely pale with only a dark tip.

True though that Lefranc & Worfolk do say "black in a few adults"

Anyone attempted to get any flight shots, to see if there's any white in the secondaries or not? Presence indicates Great Grey, absence can be either Great or Steppe.

Michael

 

CJW

Hit-and-run WUM

• Jun 18, 2003

• #7

All the island's top photographers (both of them!) were there last night and as far as I'm aware no-one got any shot's of it in flight.
What I CAN say is that there was too much white in the tail for nominate excubitor. I'll go back out this evening with a video camera and see if I can get owt. Who cares, isn't it a gorgeous bird! BTW, have a look at:
http://www.kuwaitbirds.com/images/George pictures/b124.jpg

 

Last edited: Jun 18, 2003

CJW

Hit-and-run WUM

• Jun 18, 2003

• #8

Here's a poor video grab which, I think shows there was no white on the secondaries.

 

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CJW

Hit-and-run WUM

• Jun 18, 2003

• #9

Here's another shot, taken this evening. It doesn't add anything to the discussion, but I really like the picture....

 

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Michael Frankis

conehead

• Jun 18, 2003

• #10

Hi CJ,

Saw the Kuwait pic, pink bill and all, when I did the google search.

Yep, the flight shot does show all-black secondaries, which at least rules out homeyeri race (which I saw Birdguides was listing it as a probable), that has a lot of white in the secondaries.

Must admit, the tail doesn't strike me as having any more white than an 'ordinary' excubitor Great Grey.

It'd be nice to get our Scandinavians in on the discussion - I'm wondering if the thread title doesn't have enough in it to attract their attention. Maybe post another thread, or re-name this thread, so it'll attract their attention a bit more??

Nice pic the last one, except for that hideous green box at the left

Michael

 

CJW

Hit-and-run WUM

• Jun 18, 2003

• #11

How do I re-title a thread?

 

M

max davis

Member

• Jun 18, 2003

• #12

Has anybody got Svennson? What are the guidelines in that

 

CJW

Hit-and-run WUM

• Jun 18, 2003

• #13

I've got Steve on the job with re-titleing. Svensson is no help Max.

 

Steve

Member

Staff member

• Jun 18, 2003

• #14

how's that for service.

 

CJW

Hit-and-run WUM

• Jun 18, 2003

• #15

Thanks Steve, now all you've gotta do is tell us what species the bird is!

 

M

max davis

Member

• Jun 18, 2003

• #16

I seem to recall that Svensson has detailed information about the Southerns wing pattern and primary projection or am I getting confused (I haven't got my copy to hand)

 

Binocularface

You've all got one...............!

• Jun 18, 2003

• #17

Hi

Certainly an interesting looking bird! I remember seeing a similar looking bird at Long Drag a few years ago!

The bird does not seem to show the white/pale tips and edges to the tertials that would be expected in Steppe Grey.

Correct me if I am wrong!!

Cheers
Tristan

 

Michael Frankis

conehead

• Jun 19, 2003

• #18

Checked in my copy of Svensson (4th ed.), and (very surprisingly) it doesn't even mention pallidirostris, or any of the Southern Grey Shrike subspecies other than meridionalis. Odd, as the book normally covers all of the races recorded in Europe very well.

So not a lot of help there.

Michael

 

CJW

Hit-and-run WUM

• Jun 19, 2003

• #19

Michael, I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so.
Tris' have another look at Peteee's rear shot above.

 

Grousemore

Senior Member

• Jun 19, 2003

• #20

I looked in...."Birdlife of Britain & Europe (Hayman and Hume) which does go into some detail and states that longer wingtip is the critical identification point.
For the technical amongst us,apparently eight primary tips show on drooped wingtip for Steppe Grey,compared with seven for the Great Grey!
I'm not confident of a positive ID from the pictures posted so far.but thought that reference to this book may help the debate.
The authors also state that the Steppe Grey..."is best considered as a full species:Lanius pallidirostris."

 

Last edited: Jun 19, 2003