Porro's are good optically but they are a small part of the market. I predict that since the manufacturers put most of there R&D money into roof's the porro will become extinct just like the dinosaur. I give them 5 years. What do you think?
-
Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.
Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
Are Porro's Dead? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter [email protected]
- Start date
looksharp65
Well-known member
Porri definitely have their advantages, namely light transmission number and 3D-experience at medium distance.
For people with big hands, like me, their ergonomic features stand out.
But the wide lateral prism housings obscure the part of the human FOV that sees outside the actual image of the binoculars.
As a result, I say their perceived FOV is poor compared to roofs. And the roofs are more packable and have better 3D representation at closer distance, because the left and the right barrel's image are more similar. The more widely spaced objectives of a porro unfortunately mean that a significant part of the joint view of the right and the left barrel is not actually binocular, leaving only a smaller portion with stereoopsis.
Quite recently, I aquired a FL 10x32. It beat the venerable Swift Newport 10x50 Mk II in every optical respect except for a slightly smaller FOV. Even the brightness of the FL is significantly greater.
So today I gave the Swift away to a charity second-hand store, and I have no purchase of a successor scheduled.
Never say never, but I can't see myself buy a porro again.
The porri won't disappear but their market share will continue to decrease. They will be available as lo-fi cheapy alternatives and high-tech astro bins, but will become even more scarce among birders.
For people with big hands, like me, their ergonomic features stand out.
But the wide lateral prism housings obscure the part of the human FOV that sees outside the actual image of the binoculars.
As a result, I say their perceived FOV is poor compared to roofs. And the roofs are more packable and have better 3D representation at closer distance, because the left and the right barrel's image are more similar. The more widely spaced objectives of a porro unfortunately mean that a significant part of the joint view of the right and the left barrel is not actually binocular, leaving only a smaller portion with stereoopsis.
Quite recently, I aquired a FL 10x32. It beat the venerable Swift Newport 10x50 Mk II in every optical respect except for a slightly smaller FOV. Even the brightness of the FL is significantly greater.
So today I gave the Swift away to a charity second-hand store, and I have no purchase of a successor scheduled.
Never say never, but I can't see myself buy a porro again.
The porri won't disappear but their market share will continue to decrease. They will be available as lo-fi cheapy alternatives and high-tech astro bins, but will become even more scarce among birders.
John Russell
Well-known member
Porro prisms are the only feasible solution for bins with large objectives, they are the ideal solution for straight birding scopes, and reversed Porros are better suited to close-up work than roofs.
They are still in demand in other areas outside of birding, so obituaries are premature.
John
They are still in demand in other areas outside of birding, so obituaries are premature.
John
Purple Martin
Well-known member
No, not at all. Porros are the best choice by far for astronomy and nautical use. There is a reason why the better roofs can only match mid-level porros. Roofs have advantages (e.g., compactness) that will cause their share of the market to increase (birding, nature), but the advantages of porros should keep them around for quite some time. I have many porros and I would not trade them for roofs. I really enjoy the 3-D effect in a porro field.
Martin
Martin
looksharp65
Well-known member
Of course. In my earlier post I didn't refer to porro prisms as a construction method, but as a build-style.
We know that the objectives of a large roof bin come too close to each other when the IPD is narrow. This makes them less useful if the front lenses are larger than 56 mm. But quite few bins for average Joe's and birders come in those sizes.
Scopes with porro prisms don't suffer from the disadvantages that porro bins do. This is a construction method rather than a build style.
At last, reverse porros are completely different creatures. Any advantage or disadvantage of a traditional porro bin will be negatively mirrored in the advantages/disadvantages of a reverse-porro.
I don't hesitate to claim that their features are further away from traditional porros than roofs are, because of the reverse build-style.
The fact that they carry porro prisms inside them is of less interest.
I agree with Dennis that porros will continue their "advance backwards", though not totally erased from the market within 5 years.
And once again; I was referring to medium or fullsized traditional porros for general use in my post above. I believe Dennis was thinking along the same lines.
We have 3 roofs, two porros and a reverse porro. The roofs were bought for practical reasons, the porros and reverse porro were bought for the view. The two sets cost roughly the same, but to get the optical performance match from roofs I reckon I'd need to have spent at least 4 times as much and still fall short on spatial information.
I would like to upgrade both sets in future, but for the moment my money is much better spent on porros. I hope they will still be around.
David
I would like to upgrade both sets in future, but for the moment my money is much better spent on porros. I hope they will still be around.
David
Bob A (SD)
Well-known member
Dennis,
Are you trying to give Brock a coronary with your porro extinction prediction? LOL
BTW my answer is NO, they will not become extinct. They still command the astronomy and to a lesser extent the maritime markets.
Are you trying to give Brock a coronary with your porro extinction prediction? LOL
BTW my answer is NO, they will not become extinct. They still command the astronomy and to a lesser extent the maritime markets.
NDhunter
Experienced observer
Dennis:
A short time ago, (within the past year) you said the Nikon 8x30 EII, (porro) was the best binocular on the face of the earth. :t:
I suppose you like to be one to stir the pot. The market in the low level is
full of porros. And they are a large part of sales each year. The leaders seem
to be the Bushnell and Nikon porros, consistant quality, and they do well for
the entry level.
Jerry
RJM
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
Ditto for the Canon 10x42 IS, also a porro!
I agree that some porro's are quite good optically. That is not my point and they will probably always be around in the big apertures for the astronomers and the small reverse porro's will be there for the bug watchers. But I just see them dissappearing in the sizes that BIRDERS use because of all the advantages of the roof especially waterproofing. I don't see any NEW porro's being developed by any of the big three and to me that signals death. All the new models are roofs. SV's,CL's,FL's and EDG's.
Last edited:
FrankD
Well-known member
Ahh, but it doesn't have to just be the big three that determine the market. New designs are out there. You just have to look for them a bit harder.
http://xianvision.en.alibaba.com/product/378498042-210777299/2512_01_8x40_binoculars.html
Purple Martin
Well-known member
Like me, many people use IF poro binoculars. In this category Fujinon rules!
Martin
Martin
Pinewood
New York correspondent
Hello Dennis,
There are bird watchers and there are bird watchers. Most folks who call themselves bird watchers would be hard pressed to pay more than US$200 for optics and then there are the hard core who will pay top dollar, even top Euro, for incremental improvements.
So for many the 6x30 to 8.5x32 Porro binoculars made by Eagle, Vortex, Leupold and whoever or those reverse Porro binoculars will do very nicely for looking at the feeder or strolling in a park or in the country. Notwithstanding its lack of waterproofing and limitations in viewing close up, the Nikon EII provides much of what a bird watcher needs and it sold for significantly less than a roof glass providing no better view. I am not dismissing roof binoculars, at all, I am just maintaining that there will be market share for Porro binoculars, and not just cheap Porros.
Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :egghead:
There are bird watchers and there are bird watchers. Most folks who call themselves bird watchers would be hard pressed to pay more than US$200 for optics and then there are the hard core who will pay top dollar, even top Euro, for incremental improvements.
So for many the 6x30 to 8.5x32 Porro binoculars made by Eagle, Vortex, Leupold and whoever or those reverse Porro binoculars will do very nicely for looking at the feeder or strolling in a park or in the country. Notwithstanding its lack of waterproofing and limitations in viewing close up, the Nikon EII provides much of what a bird watcher needs and it sold for significantly less than a roof glass providing no better view. I am not dismissing roof binoculars, at all, I am just maintaining that there will be market share for Porro binoculars, and not just cheap Porros.
Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :egghead:
Hi Martin,
I use muy binoculars, mostly, for birds; as a Big Game hunter; and at work as a Range Manager here in Patagonia. Actually I have only two: A Zeiss Victory FL 10x42 (pre-locu-tec) I bought in 2004, and a Swarovski Habicht 10x40 W GA, made in 2003. I like both. De difference in the view is VERY SMALL. I have had 5 (five) SW Habicht Porros. The older ones, built quality exceptional all, had a yellow tint view like many Austrian optics, made on porpouse for twilight performance (hunters). But the last ones have very neutral colours, like the Zeiss FL. And the same built quality and excepcional optics!! I compared them very carefully with a pair of Nikon SE 10x40. I preffer the view of the SW!!
Regards
PH
(QUOTE=Purple Martin;2216874]No, not at all. Porros are the best choice by far for astronomy and nautical use. There is a reason why the better roofs can only match mid-level porros. Roofs have advantages (e.g., compactness) that will cause their share of the market to increase (birding, nature), but the advantages of porros should keep them around for quite some time. I have many porros and I would not trade them for roofs. I really enjoy the 3-D effect in a porro field.
Martin[/QUOTE]
I use muy binoculars, mostly, for birds; as a Big Game hunter; and at work as a Range Manager here in Patagonia. Actually I have only two: A Zeiss Victory FL 10x42 (pre-locu-tec) I bought in 2004, and a Swarovski Habicht 10x40 W GA, made in 2003. I like both. De difference in the view is VERY SMALL. I have had 5 (five) SW Habicht Porros. The older ones, built quality exceptional all, had a yellow tint view like many Austrian optics, made on porpouse for twilight performance (hunters). But the last ones have very neutral colours, like the Zeiss FL. And the same built quality and excepcional optics!! I compared them very carefully with a pair of Nikon SE 10x40. I preffer the view of the SW!!
Regards
PH
(QUOTE=Purple Martin;2216874]No, not at all. Porros are the best choice by far for astronomy and nautical use. There is a reason why the better roofs can only match mid-level porros. Roofs have advantages (e.g., compactness) that will cause their share of the market to increase (birding, nature), but the advantages of porros should keep them around for quite some time. I have many porros and I would not trade them for roofs. I really enjoy the 3-D effect in a porro field.
Martin[/QUOTE]
James Bean
Well-known member
Rumours of the porro's demise have been highly exaggerated. In any event, they'll never die, but just fade away...
2nd_winter
Books are not just to prop up your bed!
Are porro's Deas?
Have you noticed for years we had 8x40,42, 10x40,42 & as the glass has got better instead of going smaller the 'bins' are now getting bigger 8x50,10x50Why? so Porros will come back when fashion dictates & it's time to remove more money from us. So long as there are 'fashion birders':-C there will be victims, We are victims of advertising.8-P
Have you noticed for years we had 8x40,42, 10x40,42 & as the glass has got better instead of going smaller the 'bins' are now getting bigger 8x50,10x50Why? so Porros will come back when fashion dictates & it's time to remove more money from us. So long as there are 'fashion birders':-C there will be victims, We are victims of advertising.8-P
brocknroller
porromaniac
"The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated."
- Ignatius Porrosaurus
Dennis,
Just own up to it, you made a mistake selling your three hundred dollar 8x and 10x EIIs and spending three grand on your two Swarovkis, and now you're looking for others to help you deny that fact.
Not me, I'm here to help you see the light. Sing it, brother!
"Get Backa"
By Brock McLennon
Denco was a porro man who thought he was a roofie
But he knew it couldn't last
Denco is an IT manager for APAC in Tucson, Arizona
And he spends a lot of cash.
Get Backa, get backa
Get Backa to the porros you once beloved
Get Backa, get backa
Get Backa to the porros you once beloved
Get backa, Denco
(Go home)
Now he chases the "latest and greatest"
But once he was an old porro man
All the members around him say he's quite fickle
Because he hops from bin to bin and brand to brand
Get Backa, get backa
Get Backa to the porros you once beloved
Get Back, get backa
Get Backa to the porros you once beloved
Get back, Denco
Oooh...
(spoken)
Get backa, Denco
Your porros are waiting for you
Giving their 3-D shows
And their wide field views
Get backa home, Denco
Get Backa, get backa
Get Backa to the porros you once beloved
Get Back, get backa
Get Backa to the porros you once beloved
Get backa, Denco
(Go home)
Send "Get Backa" Ringtones to Cell
- Ignatius Porrosaurus
Dennis,
Just own up to it, you made a mistake selling your three hundred dollar 8x and 10x EIIs and spending three grand on your two Swarovkis, and now you're looking for others to help you deny that fact.
Not me, I'm here to help you see the light. Sing it, brother!
"Get Backa"
By Brock McLennon
Denco was a porro man who thought he was a roofie
But he knew it couldn't last
Denco is an IT manager for APAC in Tucson, Arizona
And he spends a lot of cash.
Get Backa, get backa
Get Backa to the porros you once beloved
Get Backa, get backa
Get Backa to the porros you once beloved
Get backa, Denco
(Go home)
Now he chases the "latest and greatest"
But once he was an old porro man
All the members around him say he's quite fickle
Because he hops from bin to bin and brand to brand
Get Backa, get backa
Get Backa to the porros you once beloved
Get Back, get backa
Get Backa to the porros you once beloved
Get back, Denco
Oooh...
(spoken)
Get backa, Denco
Your porros are waiting for you
Giving their 3-D shows
And their wide field views
Get backa home, Denco
Get Backa, get backa
Get Backa to the porros you once beloved
Get Back, get backa
Get Backa to the porros you once beloved
Get backa, Denco
(Go home)
Send "Get Backa" Ringtones to Cell
looksharp65
Well-known member
Awesome!:'D
I noticed that fellow birder won't take you serious when you carry porro's these days until you discover a scarce bird in their vicinity. It seems you need the modern (expensive) roofs to join the the herd. Luckily I'm don't want to follow the herd and am I very happy with my Swarovski Habicht 7x42 and would trade them for anything.
But I agree, top quality porro's are to be extinct. There is no product development at all in the top range. And you can't blame them, all more experianced birders automatic buy roofs and think porro's aren't up to the job. How wrong can they be.....
I'd love to buy a top range porro 8x56 which are waterproof. No I probably settle with the Docter Nobilems 8x56.
Classic porro's are way more beautiful then any modern roof. Especially the leather covered ones, like my Habicht and also the old Hunter 7x50 of my dad which is around 30 years old and still in very good condition. I know it is very personal, but hey it is the internet so I can shout anything I want.
But I agree, top quality porro's are to be extinct. There is no product development at all in the top range. And you can't blame them, all more experianced birders automatic buy roofs and think porro's aren't up to the job. How wrong can they be.....
I'd love to buy a top range porro 8x56 which are waterproof. No I probably settle with the Docter Nobilems 8x56.
Classic porro's are way more beautiful then any modern roof. Especially the leather covered ones, like my Habicht and also the old Hunter 7x50 of my dad which is around 30 years old and still in very good condition. I know it is very personal, but hey it is the internet so I can shout anything I want.
2nd_winter
Books are not just to prop up your bed!
Hi All Remember Bins in the good old days Porros with large ends 50mm needed for gathering light only rich birders or birders willing to sell their granny had Roof prism.
Then came mass market Roofs because we wanted to look like we know what we are doing some with 30 year warranties which means 'YOU' don't need to replace them (bins will last longer than us) & because these bins can be found all over the place a new plan had to be developed to help me/us give away more money for bins that stop other birders rating us as 'not serious birders' using quote' mickey mouse' Bins.
So the old saying what goes around comes around.Porro in some form will come back even if the are retro.
Then came mass market Roofs because we wanted to look like we know what we are doing some with 30 year warranties which means 'YOU' don't need to replace them (bins will last longer than us) & because these bins can be found all over the place a new plan had to be developed to help me/us give away more money for bins that stop other birders rating us as 'not serious birders' using quote' mickey mouse' Bins.
So the old saying what goes around comes around.Porro in some form will come back even if the are retro.
