What is the proper plural for Canada Goose & Tufted Titmouse? (2 Viewers)

Xenospiza · Nov 27, 2006

I've seen pretty much the same discussion about capitalisation in Dutch. Birders capitalise bird names, which is wrong grammatically, but makes them more obvious in texts (a capital will usually trigger a response). You could defend the view that the names of taxa are names like Harry, Dick and Tom, and should therefore be capitalised. However, if you write to non-birders about your sightings, it's better to leave out capitals, because they will get annoyed!

Katy Penland · Nov 27, 2006

scampo said:
And if I'd seen a blue whale, I'd probably write "I've seen a BLUE WHALE!!"

LOL, as do I every time I see one, and I've seen hundreds over the last 15 years. Hey, if you want to do a lot of shouting, visit Santa Barbara, California, May-Sept and you'll see literally tons of Blue Whales as well as Humpbacks 20 minutes from the dock. :t:

scampo · Nov 27, 2006

Katy Penland said:
LOL, as do I every time I see one, and I've seen hundreds over the last 15 years. Hey, if you want to do a lot of shouting, visit Santa Barbara, California, May-Sept and you'll see literally tons of Blue Whales as well as Humpbacks 20 minutes from the dock. :t:

Wonderful, Katy, wonderful. My life is so dull in comparison. Over here, we have to gain our excitement at much more mundane things! Ah well.

Terry O'Nolley · Nov 29, 2006

scampo said:
The Collins' guide does capitalise, I notice, choosing a non-standard approach.

If all the books on a specific subject choose to capitalise, then it can hardly considered a non-standard approach.

I see the words "Canada Goose" no different then I see my name "Terry O'Nolley". If my name was, instead, "Terry Goose" and I had a cousin named "Terry Goose" I wouldn't expect some brainiac linguist to call us, collectively, "Terry Geese" I should think they would say "Terry Gooses".

scampo · Nov 29, 2006

Terry O'Nolley said:
If all the books on a specific subject choose to capitalise, then it can hardly considered a non-standard approach.

I see the words "Canada Goose" no different then I see my name "Terry O'Nolley". If my name was, instead, "Terry Goose" and I had a cousin named "Terry Goose" I wouldn't expect some brainiac linguist to call us, collectively, "Terry Geese" I should think they would say "Terry Gooses".

I have books that capitalise and books that don't - I prefer the former; but I agree, if the standard changes, then a new standard evolves - such is language change.

To consider your individual given name as analogous to a name given to a species of birds is idiosyncratic. Whilst somewhere on this earth, by coincidence, there will likely be another Terry O'Nolley, I can see a flock of Canada geese anyday I choose. Terry O'Nolley is a proper noun; Canada goose is a common noun in the same way as mountain gorilla, Florida panther and Eastern cougar are common nouns.

Terry O'Nolley · Nov 30, 2006

scampo said:
I have books that capitalise and books that don't - I prefer the former; but I agree, if the standard changes, then a new standard evolves - such is language change.

To consider your individual given name as analogous to a name given to a species of birds is idiosyncratic. Whilst somewhere on this earth, by coincidence, there will likely be another Terry O'Nolley, I can see a flock of Canada geese anyday I choose. Terry O'Nolley is a proper noun; Canada goose is a common noun in the same way as mountain gorilla, Florida panther and Eastern cougar are common nouns.

I think a goose is a common noun, but Canada Goose is a proper noun.
If this is just a difference of opinion, I will agree to disagree. If there is a reference that makes this distinction then I will gracefully concede.

KCMcgee · Dec 1, 2006

Since the common names are not subject to taxonomic nomenclature then there is not correct terms but only rather preferential terms according to whatever standards one wants to appy. Even make up your own name:

Is a Perisoreus canadensis a:

Canada Jay
Camp Robber
Whiskeyjack (are two a doublewhiskey jack?)
Gray Jay
Grey Jay

One is as valid as the other. It's why taxonomy is so important.

bitterntwisted · Dec 1, 2006

Terry O'Nolley said:
I think a goose is a common noun, but Canada Goose is a proper noun.
If this is just a difference of opinion, I will agree to disagree. If there is a reference that makes this distinction then I will gracefully concede.

Sorry, Terry, it's not a difference of opinion. Whether you capitalise species names or not, which is increasingly a matter of convention although Scampo's position is still "correct", Canada Goose, Canada goose, Canade Geese and Canada geese are all common nouns. Wikipedia: "Proper nouns (also called proper names) are the names of unique entities." Since there are many Canada geese it is not unique and is a common noun. My house is a white house, the president lives at the White House. All dictionary definitions agree - see http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/proper noun

I found this in correspondence on the subject at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Lantoka#Capitalization_in_the_Tiger_Article: "Merriam-Webster, Cambridge and the Oxford English dictionary all capitalize the adjective derived from a proper noun (again, Bengal for example). None of them capitalize the noun tiger. Other examples that might look familiar to you are German shepherd, Siberian husky, German measles, Catholic priest, Benedictine monk, Shetland pony or Welsh rabbit."

As for whether it's Canada geese or Canada gooses, that's just bloody stupid. Of course it's geese, and by extension it is titmice.

Regards,
Graham

scampo · Dec 1, 2006

Terry O'Nolley said:
I think a goose is a common noun, but Canada Goose is a proper noun.
If this is just a difference of opinion, I will agree to disagree. If there is a reference that makes this distinction then I will gracefully concede.

It's not a matter of opinion, it's just a matter of grammatical convention. And like all conventions of language, aspects change over time. But what is a "proper noun" hasn't changed, yet....

A proper noun is a name given to an individual from within a group of similar individuals, e.g. a dog is a common noun, whereas Fido is a proper noun. A Canada goose from within a domesticated flock on a farm just might posibly be given the name, "Jake", and so on.

There are several features that distinguish proper nouns from common nouns, for example, a proper noun cannot usually be introduced by an article, i.e. we don't say "The Fido" or "A Fido"; also, proper nouns cannot normally be made into a plural, i.e. we do not say, "Those Fidos".

A goose is as you say a common noun - it is the everyday name, in fact, for any member of the family, Anatidae, or more particularly, Anserinae. The term "Canada goose" is, again, a common noun being the everyday name for a particualr member of the genus Branta: Branta canadensis.

Terry O'Nolley · Dec 16, 2006

bitterntwisted said:
Wikipedia: "Proper nouns (also called proper names) are the names of unique entities." Since there are many Canada geese it is not unique and is a common noun.

But when we put "Canada Goose" in the context of species names, it is a unique entity.

bitterntwisted said:
As for whether it's Canada geese or Canada gooses, that's just bloody stupid.

YIKES! I didn't mean to get you angry! Please, relax. It's all good. You are in a safe place. What you are feeling right now is normal - it won't harm you. Breathe in...... breathe out...... repeat.

scampo · Dec 17, 2006

Terry O'Nolley said:
But when we put "Canada Goose" in the context of species names, it is a unique entity...

Unique - "one of a kind; single; solitary".

Now if you called your pet Canada goose, Sydney...

Terry O'Nolley · Dec 17, 2006

scampo said:
Unique - "one of a kind; single; solitary".

Now if you called your pet Canada goose, Sydney...

Yo Sydney!!

I understand both sides. But take the name "Smith". There are probably over a million "Smiths". Not to mention "Lee"s and "Kim"s in Korea.

I look at the Species name as being like a common surname.

If the family name "Goose" was as common as "Smith", you wouldn't refer to them, collectively, as "Geese".

But I do see what the other side says and will call plural Canada Gooses "Geese".

bitterntwisted · Dec 17, 2006

Terry O'Nolley said:
YIKES! I didn't mean to get you angry! Please, relax. It's all good. You are in a safe place. What you are feeling right now is normal - it won't harm you. Breathe in...... breathe out...... repeat.

I wasn't angry, just mildly frustrated. However this latter comment has annoyed me. I was trying to save you from continuing to parade your ignorance, and I get sarky comments in return. I take it that it is better for you to wear blind stupidity as a badge of pride than for me to try to assist you with a misunderstanding which it is hard to believe is not wilful.

Can I now expect a campaign against me by all the terry o'nolleys?

Graham

scampo · Dec 17, 2006

Terry O'Nolley said:
Yo Sydney!!

I understand both sides. But take the name "Smith". There are probably over a million "Smiths". Not to mention "Lee"s and "Kim"s in Korea.

I look at the Species name as being like a common surname.

If the family name "Goose" was as common as "Smith", you wouldn't refer to them, collectively, as "Geese".

But I do see what the other side says and will call plural Canada Gooses "Geese".

I see your point. Mind you, "Smith" isn't quite like a common species' name - otherwise wouldn't you write "Human Being".

Out of interest, "Goose" is one of the language's oldest words and can even be traced back into some of the world's oldest known languages. The old plural would have originally sounded something like "gooses" but ended up mutating into "geese".

Terry O'Nolley · Dec 17, 2006

scampo said:
I see your point. Mind you, "Smith" isn't quite like a common species' name - otherwise wouldn't you write "Human Being".

A good point! :clap:

Atomic · Dec 21, 2006

I call them Canadian Titmice

Terry O'Nolley · Dec 21, 2006

bitterntwisted said:
I wasn't angry, just mildly frustrated. However this latter comment has annoyed me. I was trying to save you from continuing to parade your ignorance, and I get sarky comments in return. I take it that it is better for you to wear blind stupidity as a badge of pride than for me to try to assist you with a misunderstanding which it is hard to believe is not wilful.

Ah... now your username makes sense! I used to read it as like a "twisted bittern". Now I see that you are a bitter and twisted person. I'm sorry to hear that! I hope the holidays see you well and I hope next year will be better for you. Merry Christmas!!! :hippy:

Colin · Dec 22, 2006

Shouldn't the title of this thread be "What are the proper plurals for Canada Goose and Tufted Titmouse?"

KCMcgee · Dec 22, 2006

Colin said:
Shouldn't the title of this thread be "What are the proper plurals for Canada Goose and Tufted Titmouse?"

One of these birds found in Quebec is called a 'French Canadian goose' and more than one are French Canadian Gooses ..or is it Canadians..or Geeses...or ... :h?:

Wiktoria · Dec 22, 2006

Nerine said:
English Language ....... I despair!!!!

I think same. We don't have this problems in Polish language. But it is easy only for Poles (polish language) |;|

I always think that it is "Canada Goose" and I say as.

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