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redpoll ID southern Canada (1 Viewer)

puttgrass

half-hardy
These photos were taken in March near Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada. It was a terribly windy day and the birds were shuffling around like anything after the tansy seeds.

I want to say Acanthis flammea flammea for the dark bird on the left in photos 2 and 3, and Acanthis hornemanni exilipes for the pale bird in 1, 2, and OOF background of 3. Thoughts?
 

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I agree with your identifications.

Your pale bird is Arctic/Hoary Redpoll. ssp. C.H.exilpes aka. Coues's Redpoll.

Your dark bird is Common Redpoll ssp. C.f.flammea aka. Mealy Redpoll.

I think a large part of the problem with redpoll identification is confusion over names. If ever there was a reason to use scientific names when discussing bird identification, this is it.

Twite.
 
Agree on the id. Coue's and Mealy seem like good names to use, we don't really have any common names for the two southern subspecies - rostrata is Greater and h. hornemanni is Hornemann's
 
Agree on the id. Coue's and Mealy seem like good names to use, we don't really have any common names for the two southern subspecies - rostrata is Greater and h. hornemanni is Hornemann's

I'm not sure what you mean by 'southern subspecies', or what you mean by rostrata is 'Greater'. C. f. rostrata is commonly known as Greenland Redpoll.

This is where redpolls cause so much confusion, it's bad enough trying to identify them, but when the very names cause confusion it makes it so that most people don't even want to get into discussions about them. As I mentioned earlier, scientific names were invented for just this type of thing.

Arctic (Europe)/Hoary(US)

C. h. hornemanni Hornemann's Redpoll
C. h. Exilpes Coues' Redpoll

Common/Mealy

C. f. flammea Common/Mealy Redpoll
C. f. rostrata Greenland Redpoll
C. f. islandica Iceland Redpoll

C. cabaret Lesser Redpoll

Twite.
 
Using North American, common name terminology, I think it is safe to say that you have both the Common Redpoll and the Hoary Redpoll in your photos.
 
I'm not sure what you mean by 'southern subspecies', or what you mean by rostrata is 'Greater'. C. f. rostrata is commonly known as Greenland Redpoll.

This is where redpolls cause so much confusion, it's bad enough trying to identify them, but when the very names cause confusion it makes it so that most people don't even want to get into discussions about them. As I mentioned earlier, scientific names were invented for just this type of thing.

Arctic (Europe)/Hoary(US)

C. h. hornemanni Hornemann's Redpoll
C. h. Exilpes Coues' Redpoll

Common/Mealy

C. f. flammea Common/Mealy Redpoll
C. f. rostrata Greenland Redpoll
C. f. islandica Iceland Redpoll

C. cabaret Lesser Redpoll

Twite.

Nicely summarised. Though might be worth mentioning that only some taxonomic bodies recognise Lesser Redpoll as a full species
 
Could someone clear up where the races are found for me?
I always though Mealy was Eurasian and C.f.rostrata from Greenland and North American, but today i found out Mealy was holarctic, so where is rostrata found? Is it restricted to greenland?
Also, for rostrata, where does the name greater come from?
 
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Could someone clear up where the races are found for me?
I always though Mealy was Eurasian and C.f.rostrata from Greenland and North American, but today i found out Mealy was holarctic, so where is rostrata found? Is it restricted to greenland?
Also, for rostrata, where does the name greater come from?

I don't know where the name 'greater' comes from, I haven't heard it used before today. Just one more name to add the the jumble of names out there. As for 'Greenland' as a name, this can also lead to a bit of confusion, as there's two very different redpolls from there, the 'big brown one' C. f. rostrata and there's the 'fluffy white one' C. h. hornemanni though more often called 'Hornemann's, sometimes Greenland Arctic'. The attached range map is useful to have a look at as it gives some idea of what's what.

Twite.
 

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rostrata is called Greater here.
By southern subspecies I mean the two from the op, which are found farther south, at least here, than the two larger subspecies. But yes, clearly scientific names clear up some confusion in this case!

Hoping to find Hornemann's this winter, seen the other 3 found here.
 
rostrata is called Greater here.
By southern subspecies I mean the two from the op, which are found farther south, at least here, than the two larger subspecies. But yes, clearly scientific names clear up some confusion in this case!

Hoping to find Hornemann's this winter, seen the other 3 found here.

To be honest I have no idea what you're talking about. What are the scientific names of these southern subspecies? What are the scientific names of these two larger subspecies? If you want to engage in a discussion about redpolls you have to be clear in this. Otherwise it's pointless.

Twite.
 
I think the 'southern subspecies' refered to being referee to are C.f.flammea Abd C.h.exlipes.
I think the two 'larger subspecies' referee to are C.f.rostrata and C.h.Hornemanni
I think this is what Reuven_M was referring too?
 
To be honest I have no idea what you're talking about. What are the scientific names of these southern subspecies? What are the scientific names of these two larger subspecies? If you want to engage in a discussion about redpolls you have to be clear in this. Otherwise it's pointless.

Twite.

Perhaps you did not understand that "op" means original post. I'm talking about flammea and exilipes, which are smaller, and generally found further south (at least in winter, it's not as clearcut in summer as I can see from that great map you posted, and even in winter the situation is clouded by birders not reporting subspecies) than hornemanni and rostrata
My original point is that there are no generally used common names for the two smaller subspecies here, and the European names should be adopted.
 
Perhaps you did not understand that "op" means original post. I'm talking about flammea and exilipes, which are smaller, and generally found further south (at least in winter, it's not as clearcut in summer as I can see from that great map you posted, and even in winter the situation is clouded by birders not reporting subspecies) than hornemanni and rostrata
My original point is that there are no generally used common names for the two smaller subspecies here, and the European names should be adopted.

Thanks for that Reuven_M. You're right, I had no idea what op was |:$| Re. The map. I think this probably only relates to breeding range. In winter 'all bets are off' so to speak. An agreed 'common' set of names would help, in the meantime we'll just have to muddle through.

Thanks birding maniac. You read Reuven_M's post a lot better then I did.

All the best.

Twite.
 
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