10x Bino's for $320? (1 Viewer)

Ok, I have a nice pair of 8x binos. I'm happy with my Nikon's. But I would not mind another pair that brings in birds a little closer. So I want a 10x
bino and I'm looking at the Pentax DCF SP 10x50.

Looks like I can get this bino for around $320 on some sites online. For that price, are there any other 9x or 10x binos that surpass this binos? I paid $320 for by 8x Monarchs at Gander Mountain. I'm happy with those - nice eye relief (I wear glasses), phase corrected, and waterproof. Also nice close focus. Now I want a bino like that in 9 or 10 power. I would like to buy another brand just to buy another brand, not because I'm unhappy with Nikon.

Right now I'm looking at those Pentax DCF SP - 10x50. Anything wrong with this bino? Will I get a sharp view with those like my 8x42 Monarchs?

Any good 9 or 10x binos with a decent field of few, something like my Monarch’s?

Thanks!

Canon IS 10x30 ... 6 degrees FOV, not huge (6.5 would be very good) but sharp to the edge of field.

I find I can hold them more steadily than any 10x. And then they have IS on top of that.

$329 at Adorama.

They seem to have become my default bin.

I have joined the Cult of IS. Join us ...

HoosierGuy said:

Ok, I have a nice pair of 8x binos. I'm happy with my Nikon's. But I would not mind another pair that brings in birds a little closer. So I want a 10x
bino and I'm looking at the Pentax DCF SP 10x50.

Looks like I can get this bino for around $320 on some sites online. For that price, are there any other 9x or 10x binos that surpass this binos? I paid $320 for by 8x Monarchs at Gander Mountain. I'm happy with those - nice eye relief (I wear glasses), phase corrected, and waterproof. Also nice close focus. Now I want a bino like that in 9 or 10 power. I would like to buy another brand just to buy another brand, not because I'm unhappy with Nikon.

Right now I'm looking at those Pentax DCF SP - 10x50. Anything wrong with this bino? Will I get a sharp view with those like my 8x42 Monarchs?

Any good 9 or 10x binos with a decent field of few, something like my Monarch’s?

Thanks!

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Are you sure you are talking about the DCF SP's? Something doesn't sound right there unless you are talking about used binoculars. Eagle has a sale on them right now for $599.

For $320 new, the best roof prism Pentax you'll find are the 10x42 DCF WP II.

Buz said:

Are you sure you are talking about the DCF SP's? Something doesn't sound right there unless you are talking about used binoculars. Eagle has a sale on them right now for $599.

For $320 new, the best roof prism Pentax you'll find are the 10x42 DCF WP II.

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http://www.beachcamera.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=PKB10X50DCFSP

Actually there are quite a few sites that now have the SPs at some killer prices. I found the 8x43s for $225 recently and I know Doug at CLNY had the 10x50s under $400.

I like Kevin's suggestion. One of these days I will bite on the IS style. I just haven't gotten around to it yet.



If I may be so bold to suggest something new? The new Bushnell Legend Ultra HDs have just hit the seen. The first consumer to buy and receive a pair just posted over on 24hourcampfire. His initial impressions seem very favorable considering what he compared them to. They are at the $300 price point...obviously use ED glass....and have a 340 foot field of view. Very respectable for a full size 10x glass.

FrankD said:

Actually there are quite a few sites that now have the SPs at some killer prices. I found the 8x43s for $225 recently and I know Doug at CLNY had the 10x50s under $400.

I like Kevin's suggestion. One of these days I will bite on the IS style. I just haven't gotten around to it yet.



If I may be so bold to suggest something new? The new Bushnell Legend Ultra HDs have just hit the seen. The first consumer to buy and receive a pair just posted over on 24hourcampfire. His initial impressions seem very favorable considering what he compared them to. They are at the $300 price point...obviously use ED glass....and have a 340 foot field of view. Very respectable for a full size 10x glass.

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OK, Hoosierguy found an incredible deal! Seems a little dubious that that company only offers a few models.
I wonder what Pentax is up to with these deep discounts? ED glass coming in the lower end models soon?

Frank, I never considered Bushnell in the $300 binocular range, until now.
Seems there is a changeover to ED glass throughout the binocular world and it's really making it's way down to the 'affordable' models now.

I would highly reccomend the Zen Ray 10x43 ED's. They are a little more expensive $369 but the glass in them is exceptional for a binocular of that price. I am actually a dealer for Zen Ray so if you are interested you can send me a pm and I can get you a great deal.
Steve

Canon 10x30 IS was my thought as well, since I have these I don't use any other ( non-IS ) binocular anymore. Wonderful bins!
They are not waterproof, though, so they're not an option since the original poster wants waterproof in 10x.

Regards,

Ronald

KorHaan said:

Canon 10x30 IS was my thought as well, since I have these I don't use any other ( non-IS ) binocular anymore. Wonderful bins!
They are not waterproof, though, so they're not an option since the original poster wants waterproof in 10x.

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Good point, Ronald. I jumped over that one.

But even if "waterproof" is a requirement I'd recommend they be tried. It might turn out the other features let you downgrade the requirement from waterproof to water-resistant.

Before I tried them I'd ruled them out before: silly small exit pupil, not waterproof, expensive (for a small porro when the IS is off), heavier than you'd expect, the field flattener reduces perceived DOF etc. Turns out they're a big win and I even like some of the misfeatures. And it's not just the IS. I'm surprised how steady I can hold these without the IS.

The other high point for the newer Canons is that it is a porro (porro 2 ... like a microscope) so they avoid the extra complexity of getting a roof prism right.

The other things that the Canon IS 10x30 made me think small 10x from a decent company might actually be worth using. But they'd have to have good optics and be compact to gain the "anti-shake" advantage at the same price. Sort of over/under porros, perhaps? But nobody makes them. The next step up would be discontinued Top Four 10x compacts. Or maybe 9x36.

Speaking of 9x36 another bin that no one has tried is the Vortex Diamondback 9x36. Will it be better than your current one? Bigger FOV? Probably. Brighter? Maybe.

Stretching to a Zen Ray 10x43 would certainly be a step up in view quality. But above the budget but worth breaking the budget for. Next stop after them is the Top Four.

Frank's suggestion of the Bushnell Ultra HD is for the adventurous but is an interest choice given the one good report and in budget too. And someone has got to buy them and tell us what they're like. Get them from a place you can easily return them. But they might be winners too.

HoosierGuy said:

Right now I'm looking at those Pentax DCF SP - 10x50. Anything wrong with this bino? Will I get a sharp view with those like my 8x42 Monarchs?

Any good 9 or 10x binos with a decent field of few, something like my Monarch’s?

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The Pentax are rather well known for their narrow FOV design style. Not dissimilar (though perhaps narrow than) the Monarchs.

Anything wrong with it? It's big. Unless you spend a lot of time in the dark you will find 50mm a bit on the big side. Though you may like the 5mm exit pupil during the day it won't add anything much over a 4mm exit pupil.

All the other bins I suggest have larger FOVs than the Monarchs.

The Monarchs were the champs of their day though they're looking a bit old today.

Don't tempt me with the 10x Legend Ultra Kevin. You know I don't like 10x's but I do have some Cabelas points saved up on the Visa so picking one up would be easy......



Oh, by the way, they are the only place that I heard has them in at this point and there is something "screwy" with the ordering system supposedly so I would call the order in instead of using the website.

10x is fine, it starts to be useful in this price range. But 50mm is a bit heavy. And narrow field.

S&S said:

I would highly reccomend the Zen Ray 10x43 ED's. They are a little more expensive $369 but the glass in them is exceptional for a binocular of that price. I am actually a dealer for Zen Ray so if you are interested you can send me a pm and I can get you a great deal.
Steve

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The Zen Ray ZRS at $175 is also a great way to add 10x capability. I love mine. Great views and great ergonomics. Probably not at the Pentax SP level (although the ZRS performs comparably to the Vortex Viper 10 x 42) but they are also less than half the price.

Probably not at the Pentax SP level (although the ZRS performs comparably to the Vortex Viper 10 x 42) but they are also less than half the price

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Now that would be an interesting comparison that I have yet to see comment on...the SP/ZRS...not the Viper/ZRS.

How is the build quality of the Zen-Ray ED 10x43? I know all the reviews have been great. I have read a few reviews on other sites (hunting web sites) who have said the optics are great but they could not say how well they will last until they try them out in the field.

So are those Zen-Ray ED 10's made well or do they feel like they will fall apart after five years? Will they last and will they last when used in the rain and cold weather?

HoosierGuy said:

How is the build quality of the Zen-Ray ED 10x43? I know all the reviews have been great. I have read a few reviews on other sites (hunting web sites) who have said the optics are great but they could not say how well they will last until they try them out in the field.

So are those Zen-Ray ED 10's made well or do they feel like they will fall apart after five years? Will they last and will they last when used in the rain and cold weather?

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To me they appear to be built QUITE well. I have had my 8x43 ED's for about a year through some pretty tough weather in Colorado including snow and rain without any problems at all. I would say they are built as well as most of the Alphas. I believe the Zen Ray 10x43 ED's would by far give you the best view for the money of any of the binoculars you are looking at. I sold my Leica's and Nikon's after I got mine!
As far as the Canon's 10x30 IS go they are excellent binoculars and you CAN see more detail with the IS engaged and I would highly recommend them. I have the Canon 12x36 IS II and I love them for long distance detail. Nothing will beat them for that and I have had the 10x30's and I prefer the 12 x36 IS's because they are just even more effective and I am sure the 15x50 IS and 18x50 IS although getting big and heavy are awesome binoculars for long distance viewing. But having said that they are not quite up to the optics of the Alphas or Zen Rays when it comes to contrast, color fidelity, or flare control. Although you can see detail very well and they have a very flat field right to the edge(Their edge sharpness is one of the best binoculars I have ever seen) they do not have that GORGEOUS view of the alphas or the Zen's. So I would consider them a secondary binocular. If I could have only ONE pair of binoculars in that price range it would be the Zen Ray 10x43 ED. If I could have two pairs it would the Zen Ray AND the Canon's. In fact my three binoculars right now are the Zen Ray 8x43 ED's(Best roof prism for the money), Canon 12x36 IS II(Best IS), and the Nikon 8x32 SE(Best Optics Period).

Dennis

Well, I took the leap and ordered the Zen Ed 10's from Zen-Ray. How fast do they ship? I look forward to receiving them. I will send them back for refund if they don't fit me right. But I'm looking forward to receiving these well reviewed binoculars and compare them to my Nikon Monarchs 8's that I enjoy using.

One nice thing about these Zen's - if I accidentally lay the Zen's down on a bench or something and look away, a person is probably less likely to steal them because they will say "Zen-Ray" on them and not some big brand name like Nikon or Pentax. Who has heard of Zen-Ray except people into optics? lol. A thief is probably likely to think - I can't get any money from those cheap Chinese binoculars, so he/she will not take them.

HoosierGuy said:

One nice thing about these Zen's - if I accidentally lay the Zen's down on a bench or something and look away, a person is probably less likely to steal them because they will say "Zen-Ray" on them and not some big brand name like Nikon or Pentax. Who has heard of Zen-Ray except people into optics? lol. A thief is probably likely to think - I can't get any money from those cheap Chinese binoculars, so he/she will not take them.

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I have no idea about your theft proof theory. Like the post from Kevin Purcell on the living bird article; http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=144425The advice in the linked article seems to have more relevance, Never buy something you can't afford to replace if lost or stolen.

I predict you Monarchs will not last long after the ZEN.

Just made an optics discover. My brother and I have a Celestron 8inch scope. He's collected eyepieces over the years. One eyepiece that he bought was a Pentax 14mm. Whenever we've had the telescope out in the day time looking at trees or tops of peoples houses down the road, and we would have that Pentax in, I would always say - "that Pentax gives a very strange view - it's hard to explain. The image is just more solid looking than the other eyepieces."

My brother just bought a Celestron ED spotting scope and he's been tiring out all his telescope eyepieces on it. I've been saying - try the Pentax! Try the Pentax. So we tried the Pentax, it again had a great image.

So I asked my brother how much he paid for that Pentax. He forgot. So I looked them up - it turns out the 14mm is in the line of Pentax WX eyepieces.

The description says - "The Pentax 14mm XW eyepiece is made of high-refraction, low-dispersion lanthanum glass that delivers bright, high-resolution images with minimal aberrations and distortions. Apparent Field of View = 70º Eye Relief = 20mm Barrel Size = 1.25""


I saw that "low-dispersion" and said - hey, isn't that ED glass?

So, isn’t that ED glass? Is that what gives the image such a great unique look? I can't exactly explain the image I see thru the Pentax except to say - looks more solid, more airy, just nicer than all the other nice eyepieces.

ED is extra-low dispersion glass. It has an Abbe number greater than 80. LD is low(er) dispersion glass.

The Lanthanum glass mention is most likely Lanthanum Crown (LaK) which is not an ED glass. It has about the same dispersion as BaK (and is rather worse than BK ... something people forget) but has a higher refractive index. This helps in the eyepiece design when you are trying to control transverse CA. ED objectives control longitudinal CA.

So it does have the effect you are describing but it's not "ED glass" in the eyepiece.

See the Wikipedia article on Abbe Number and the Abbe Diagram there ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbe_number
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Abbe-diagram.png

See where LaK is.

The ED glasses are FK (fluorite crown) or PK (phosphate crown). Often fluorphosphate crown

e.g. compare Schott N-FK51A (i.e. the N means a equivalent to FK51A reformulated to loose heavy metals like lead and arsenic).

http://refractiveindex.info/abbe-number.php?group=SCHOTT&material=N-FK51A

and Schott N-LAK7

http://refractiveindex.info/abbe-number.php?group=SCHOTT&material=N-LAK7

I guess the glass name FK, fluorite crown, is why so many bin makers' advertising says they have fluorite objectives (which should be reserved for crystalline calcium fluoride, CAF2, IMHO) rather than the fluorphosphate crown glass objectives (a glass with fluoride doping) they often really have. But really only a chemist like me would get picky about this but the marketers love things like ED==GOOD and FLUORITE==DOUBLE_PLUS_GOOD

I suspect but can't actually prove that the Chinese EDs (and the Zeiss FL and Leica HD and similar ED bins) use a single ED glass element in the objective (to control LCA) and have at least one LaK element in the eyepiece (to control TCA). This is way the differ from the previous generation of bins e.g. take a look at TCA at the edge of field it's clear they're doing something to control that and it's not just adding an ED objective that gives the "total" improvement.

I would agree that the reduction of color fringing does give a brighter, sharper more contrast-filled image. Definitely more lifelike assuming everything is done correctly. The XW 14 eyepiece is often raved about as a perfect compromise eyepiece for use with the various Pentax ED scopes. I have the 65 ED with the XW 20 eyepiece and must admit that the image is amazing.