The right tripod for my new little spotter (1 Viewer)

I currently have three tripods, none of them quite right for my new Opticron MM3 60mm scope which weighs in at just over two lb.

The first tripod has Bogen 3046 legs, and a a Unistar Light alt/az mount. It is a great steady astronomy mount for a small refractor, and it has been my default birding scope, but strictly for use from my balcony. The whole rig with scope is over 20 lb, and I'm guessing legs and head are 12-14 lb of that. it is a great steady base, but the antithesis of portable or quick set up.

Next is my wife's Manfrotto 055XProB with 322RC2 head. It is a reasonable tripod, and more portable than the 3046 rig, but I don't like the 322RC2 head at all. I am not ready to write off all ball heads based on this one, but I don't like the grip mechanism and the ball was both hard to maneuver and didn't hold that well. Together head and legs weigh ~6.5 lb and I gather the legs are about 5 lb of that. It goes up to a nice height (more than I need), but is neither compact nor light. It is plenty of support for the MM3 and damping is very quick.

Finally I have a mid 80s vintage Celestron Photographic tripod with 3-way pan-tilt head (no quick release). This rig weighs about 7 lb. The pan head is not great, but it has a spring counterbalance in the altitude bearing that is useful for sufficiently light telescopes. The spring also gives the altitude motion a sense of resistance away from the horizontal that is almost like having a tension setting in altitude. However in azimuth (pan) it is just locked or free swinging. This is the tripod I have been using today, and it works, but it is strictly an interim solution while I play with my new toy. It is not as steady as the 055 and is not as good at dampening vibration, nor is it as tall with legs fully extended. However it is marginally more compact than the 055 when folded, and there is considerably less cursing involved in using the head.

I have read the recent threads about tripods for light spotting scopes. Some options I see are:

• Get a new head for the 055 legs either decent ball head, very lightweight video fluid head, or light weight pan head
• Get a new lighter more compact set of legs and choose a head as above
• See how the $100 Zomei ballhead tripod I ordered from Amazon works

Yes, I admit it, I decided to try the knock-off of the knock-off Chinese tripod. Amazon will let me return if I am unhappy with it, and the reviews have been quite good. Put it down to poor impulse control over the weekend while I was waiting for the scope. If the Zomei doesn't work, I will revert to the sensible step--I'll bring my scope to the camera shop where we bought the Manfrotto tripod and audition different camera tripods.

Any and all advice appreciated.

Alan

After some delay my Zomei tripod arrived last night. There are many similar folding Zomei ball head tripods with monopod conversion. I chose the Q666 version since it had an additional tension adjustment on the ball head and fewer leg sections (four instead of five). The tripod came with a nice padded case, almost intelligible instructions, an Allen wrench for adjusting tension of leg attachment points, and a mystery bolt used for monopod conversion. Packaging, fit and finish all make a good impression, but the first impression is more lightweight than sturdy. As I set it up for the first time, the good impression continued as all the mechanisms seemed true and well machined although the head was somewhat loose on the tripod column.

I believe the intent of the two adjustment ball head is that one adjustment is tension and the other is locking. In fact, it took a bit of fiddling with both until I got the tension and smooth motion that I wanted. The pan motion is independent of the ball and has no tension adjustment, but it actually has a nice small resistance to it. I use the pan motion and move the ball only for altitude (tilt?) motion. I'm know I'm just imitating a simple pan head, but the advantage of the ball head is that it's more compact and lighter weight. I haven't had it much more than 15 degrees off the horizontal in altitude, but it seems fine. In fact, I like it better than the pan/tilt head I have on the Celestron Photographic tripod.

The tripod legs are more than tall enough for my 45 degree MM3 spotting scope and I'm 5'10". In fact, I'm sure I could mount binoculars or a straight through spotting scope and view comfortably. One very nice feature is the way the leg locks work. They are twist locks, and when you untwist them 1/4 turn there is give in the lock but it doesn't release the leg yet. Another 1/4 turn or so and the leg moves freely. I like the fact that I am never unscrewing or screwing the lock by several turns wondering where I am on getting it tight. The center column lock works the same way. I like this better than the flip locks on the Manfrotto 055 or the twist locks on the Celestron Photographic tripod. The legs have both rubber feet and spikes that can be exposed by twisting the rubber feet in.

The legs are not as rigid nor do they damp as quickly as the Manfrotto 055, but the 055 is also much heavier and less compact (3 leg sections instead of 4). The rigidity and damping are better than the Celestron Photographic tripod. However, this Zomei tripod and head weigh just about half of what the Manfrotto or Celestron rigs weigh. The Zomei spec says 3.75 lb and that seems right. At some point I may try this head on the Manfrotto legs to see what I think. I'm also tempted to try a light weight pan or video head on these legs. But either of these will definitely add bulk and weight.

When it stops storming here, I will see how it is in the field.

Alan

Naturally I would suggest a Gitzo Carbon fiber tripod. However you don't want to spend that much - which I fully understand, as they are hideously expensive new!

If you are not in a rush then there are some great bargains on the used market. Between myself and one friend we have picked up two 3 series Gitzo carbon fiber tripods (1329 Mk2 and 1327) WAY overkill for your scope - but still lighter than your Manfrotto 055! Also a Feisol 3342 (probably just what you want + very light). All of these were £100 or less - the Gitzo's were in excellent condition - the Feisol was like new!

If you are willing to wait, bid carefully, then you can get a much better tripod. If you can snag a 2/3 series Gitzo or a Feisol Tournament model you can sell your 055 to help cover the cost as you won't be needing it!

If you must buy now then have a look at the Sirui/Feisol/Benro ranges as they make some nice kit - but don't skimp! I have found scopes to be very demanding on tripods.

Thanks for the suggestions johnf3f. I am going to visit a local shop to see if they have used tripods and I also want to try some more expensive travel tripods to see if their damping time is better. Once I see how the high end tripods perform I'll be able to better judge all the offerings.

You made me consider how I should allocate budget for legs and head relative to weight and cost of scope. Of course this assumes I can buy more steadiness and quicker vibration damping at the same or lighter weight.

My experience with my refractor was that the proper legs and head cost me about 1/3 the cost of the telescope. My refractor weighs about 7 lb, the legs are 9 lb and the head is maybe 5. So tripod+head is perhaps double the weight of the refractor. My MM3 weighs just under 1 kg and it cost around $700. Using my astro refractor as a rough guideline, I'd be looking for a 2 kg $233 tripod for the MM3.

I do not pretend to be an expert on spotting scopes but I have found that with my MM2 and 77mm Kowa that sturdy tripods do make for a much better viewing experience. I have also found that spotting scopes are more demanding on tripods than large photographic lenses. For example my Canon 800mm F5.6 L IS (the longest lens that they currently make) is more than adequately supported by my Gitzo 3530 LS tripod, whereas it is only quite good with my Kowa spotting scope?!?

What I am getting at is that scopes offer high magnification and you (or I) are looking through them for long periods of time so stability/rigidity becomes more important. Naturally there have to be compromises! A 100 + pound video tripod would give stunning views but it is not going more than a couple of yards from the car! On the other hand a lightweight travel tripod will go with you pretty much anywhere but will be a bit wobbly at best! The solution is somewhere in the middle.

Good, rigid and fairly light tripods are very expensive! This is why I suggested looking at the used market. If you local camera stores keep second hand tripods then go have a good long look, also have a look for well known brands on E Bay. I know people are wary of E Bay but I simply would not have my current photography setup if it were not for this site. I have spent a LOT of money on E Bay but I have saved even more!

Take some time, if you are not in a rush, and you may be surprised at what you can pick up for reasonable money. If you can snag a 1 or 2 series Gitzo at reasonable money (as I have) then you may be very pleasantly surprised - either would make your 055 redundant.

Happy hunting!

I have got great professional tripods from charity shops for very little money.
Just make sure it has the quick release plate, as these may be unobtainable.

Angled scopes need less high tripods.

Well, in the past few days I have visited both Goodwill (US version of charity shop), and my local camera store. Goodwill had only a plastic video tripod missing the mounting plate.

The local camera store was more interesting. Today they carry mostly Induro/Benro/Mefoto. Five years ago it was mostly Manfrotto, Gitzo, and some other off brands. They said that Manfrotto/Gitzo have become much less responsive as suppliers, and their prices have gone up very quickly while Chinese products have dramatically improved their price/performance during the same period. I have done business there sporadically over many years, and I don't think he was BSing me. He said that even when selling to a pro, it is much easier to sell a $500 set of legs than a $1200 set of legs. Anyway, enough of the globalization lecture.

Their suggestion was to get a lightweight video head and see how I liked it on my Manfrotto 055 legs and then if I decide the Manfrotto is too heaving to haul around we can talk about investing in CF legs. I bought a Benro S2 video head, but it was essentially a locking pan/tilt head with no friction adjustment is altitude. I found that with the proper tension, the Zomei ballhead was considerably easier to use. I returned the Benro S2 and looked at the S4, which is much bulkier and double the weight at ~1.5 lb (.7 kg). I thought it might belong on my 055, but then I started looking longingly at an Induro CF 2 Series tripod with three leg sections. The S4 and Induro legs were going to cost ~$500, so I decided to pause, take a deep breath, and just get a refund for the S2 head I was returning. The camera store owner was most pleasant, and with a smile he said "I'll see you in a week." I'm not sure he is right this time, but his prices are close enough to what I can find online and I do prefer to give him my business.

I am going to continue with the Zomei while I think about next steps and keep an eye on ebay--I'll post my Zomei experience separately. But I also realize that I need to think through my actual requirements for compactness as well as weight. I no longer travel extensively by air, nor do I backpack, so that would make compactness less of a priority. Yet weight is definitely a factor for me, even if I am only carry the tripod and scope over my shoulder a few blocks. I hope my experiments with the Zomei will help me clarify whether I want to go even lighter, or if that it a good weight and I want to go stronger or invest more weight in the head.

The search goes on.

Alan

ailevin said:

Well, in the past few days I have visited both Goodwill (US version of charity shop), and my local camera store. Goodwill had only a plastic video tripod missing the mounting plate.

The local camera store was more interesting. Today they carry mostly Induro/Benro/Mefoto. Five years ago it was mostly Manfrotto, Gitzo, and some other off brands. They said that Manfrotto/Gitzo have become much less responsive as suppliers, and their prices have gone up very quickly while Chinese products have dramatically improved their price/performance during the same period. I have done business there sporadically over many years, and I don't think he was BSing me. He said that even when selling to a pro, it is much easier to sell a $500 set of legs than a $1200 set of legs. Anyway, enough of the globalization lecture.

Their suggestion was to get a lightweight video head and see how I liked it on my Manfrotto 055 legs and then if I decide the Manfrotto is too heaving to haul around we can talk about investing in CF legs. I bought a Benro S2 video head, but it was essentially a locking pan/tilt head with no friction adjustment is altitude. I found that with the proper tension, the Zomei ballhead was considerably easier to use. I returned the Benro S2 and looked at the S4, which is much bulkier and double the weight at ~1.5 lb (.7 kg). I thought it might belong on my 055, but then I started looking longingly at an Induro CF 2 Series tripod with three leg sections. The S4 and Induro legs were going to cost ~$500, so I decided to pause, take a deep breath, and just get a refund for the S2 head I was returning. The camera store owner was most pleasant, and with a smile he said "I'll see you in a week." I'm not sure he is right this time, but his prices are close enough to what I can find online and I do prefer to give him my business.

I am going to continue with the Zomei while I think about next steps and keep an eye on ebay--I'll post my Zomei experience separately. But I also realize that I need to think through my actual requirements for compactness as well as weight. I no longer travel extensively by air, nor do I backpack, so that would make compactness less of a priority. Yet weight is definitely a factor for me, even if I am only carry the tripod and scope over my shoulder a few blocks. I hope my experiments with the Zomei will help me clarify whether I want to go even lighter, or if that it a good weight and I want to go stronger or invest more weight in the head.

The search goes on.

Alan

Click to expand...

This one is a bit over the top for your needs but would be VERY steady to say the least! Roughly the same weight as the Manfroto 055 but in a completely different league for stability. I used to have a virtually identical one and it was fine with my Canon 800mm camera lens (the longest they currently make) - as I said a bit more than you need but stable!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gitzo-G1348...096382?hash=item43fb21aa7e:g:2Q4AAOSw5cNYV0Vi

Either of these two will do a good job as well:

http://www.adorama.com/fect3342.html

http://www.adorama.com/fect3442.html

These Feisols won't do as good a job as the Gitzo above but they are quite good (a friend of mine uses the 3442 with a 30x Swarowski), brand new and VERY light - have a look and see what you think. If you want a light tripod then these are some of the best that I have used.

Happy hunting!