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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Swift ID Whitburn Co.Durham (1 Viewer)

Might help with origin too - though the 1st Lord Derby interloper was from Tunis!

11 out of 22 adults from Europe retained old primaries (mainly p10 OUTER) only, but only 3 out of 42 North African birds (p10 only), probably indicating longer moult season of latter (perhaps more often starting during nesting). More information on timing and duration of moult needed.


Also - have a look at the head shape and bill shape in the second photo down here

http://www.portlandbirdobs.org.uk/oi_pallid_swift_121111.htm
 
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Jane Turner said:
Just been trawling through all the Swift ID thread on here... and found this.

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=2035870&postcount=8

Though there are some intermediate birds, the largest Pallids are 2x the head with of the smallest Commons - so the extremes should be (and seem to be) easy in photos
Click to expand...

Yes...the 'extremes should' be easy...however i just had a trawl back through this thread to the link in post 5...[Phil Babers]...to many Pallid pix taken in Italy...and the overall shape is highly variable..[some dont even look broad hipped...let alone fat headed]...:smoke:

Is that just my eyes seeing that...? [probably]..;)

http://username-beast.blogspot.com/
 
One of the issues is that you need to see at least a suggestion of both eye ridges or both sides of the bill, and most people, not unreasonably upload the side on photos.

However, its one like this
http://i.pbase.com/o2/60/469160/1/128238487.n7SnnB7A.Rondonepallido2.jpg

You don't need to have the angle right if it has a head like a Kestrel

http://i.pbase.com/o4/60/469160/1/102506991.J5Y4vRqB.Rondonepallido51.jpg

I'm thinking that there may be mileage in comparing the ratio of inter brow space to inter nostril space on any photos where they show, since the measurement are in the same plane and any foreshortening would be taken care of in the ratio between them
 
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The big headed one labelled as common is in this gallery - its throat is swollen, but the forehead looks broad and the bill looks close to right angled.

http://www.pbase.com/dophoto/rondone

and the one indicated below.

For the Pallids - just go up a level and browse
 

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Hmmm.. so it looks like I need another museum trip (to take photographs of the faces of as many swifts as I can find). I want to avoid using in the hand measurements and have something that you could use on a photograph of a live bird. So far I've found 8 swift photos where I can see both brow ridges and nostrils.... With too few examples believe it yet, but the ratio of nostril width to skull width at the mid eye ridge is looking really promising as a way to ID Swifts from photos.

So if anyone else feels like finding head on photos online or taking photos of skins, I'd be ever so keen to see them.

I also think that there is something even more useful in skull depth to skull width, which would be be easier to see in the field but is very hard to measure in a photo (you need to be looking dead on down its throat). Of course broader flatter skull is mentioned in BWP as a useful feature already and I think the Collins guide.

I think the angle between the mandibles might be even more useful - the human eye is very good a detecting close to 90 degrees even on a fast moving bird. I can't wait to get back to Spain in spring to try it out.
 

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Jane Turner said:
Hmmm.. so it looks like I need another museum trip (to take photographs of the faces of as many swifts as I can find). I want to avoid using in the hand measurements and have something that you could use on a photograph of a live bird. So far I've found 8 swift photos where I can see both brow ridges and nostrils.... With too few examples believe it yet, but the ratio of nostril width to skull width at the mid eye ridge is looking really promising as a way to ID Swifts from photos.

So if anyone else feels like finding head on photos online or taking photos of skins, I'd be ever so keen to see them.

I also think that there is something even more useful in skull depth to skull width, which would be be easier to see in the field but is very hard to measure in a photo (you need to be looking dead on down its throat). Of course broader flatter skull is mentioned in BWP as a useful feature already and I think the Collins guide.

I think the angle between the mandibles might be even more useful - the human eye is very good a detecting close to 90 degrees even on a fast moving bird. I can't wait to get back to Spain in spring to try it out.
Click to expand...

What are you measuring IN Jane? mm, cm, pixels?

Owen
 
Pixels using tpsDig2. http://www.diatom.org/efa/imageJ&tpsDIG.htm

Relative measures in each case and using a much larger starting images than the composite of all the heads above.

Will do an error analysis when I have 10s to 100s more images (might be a long time).

Rather regretting not photographing the Swifts in a tray facial line up that first smacked me between the eyes on this!
 
Nearly - I can see both nostrils but would have to guess at where the left eye ridge is over the centre of the left eye. Its not easy to pick the mid line and You can see the bill shape nicely though - well short of right angles at the tip
 

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