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Old Wednesday 8th May 2013, 15:50   #1
cango
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Brambling chaffinch hybrid?

Not sure where to ask this, so I try here.

Might this be a hybrid? Looks like a brambling (male first winter) but sounds like a chaffinch (http://www.birdforum.tv/action/viewv...id_/?ref=cango)

He had a female chaffinch after him the whole time.

Thanks for any insight.
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Old Wednesday 8th May 2013, 16:04   #2
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I see this as a Brambling.
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Old Wednesday 8th May 2013, 16:11   #3
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I see this as a Brambling.
are they known to sing like it does in the video? I thought they always sounded almost like greenfinches
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Old Wednesday 8th May 2013, 17:08   #4
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Looks 100% Brambling but sounds 100% Chaffinch - odd??
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Old Wednesday 8th May 2013, 17:54   #5
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Looks 100% Brambling but sounds 100% Chaffinch - odd??
agree... :-)
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Old Thursday 9th May 2013, 09:40   #6
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Back in Victorian times people tried to "improve" the singing abilities of captive finches by exposing young to song from from other species - don't have any specific knowledge re: Bramblings however. Could it had found itself in an area where there were few Bramblings but many Chaffinches and grown up only being exposed to the wrong song?
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Old Thursday 9th May 2013, 09:52   #7
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Many years ago we had a Corn Bunting in Pembrokeshire which sang exactly like a Yellowhammer.
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Old Thursday 9th May 2013, 18:20   #8
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"Could it had found itself in an area where there were few Bramblings but many Chaffinches and grown up only being exposed to the wrong song?"

If such thing is possible, then it might be the case here, not sure. Don't see many bramblings where I am, but more south they usually hang around in bigger flocks during winter. It surely is odd.

"Many years ago we had a Corn Bunting in Pembrokeshire which sang exactly like a Yellowhammer."

Saw that corn buntings are very similar to yellowhammers. The close relationship might be what did it here. And, there is a close - I think - relationship between chaffinch and bramblings as well, so who knows.
Edit: saw that first winter male of yellowhammer, is indeed very similar in looks, to corn bunting. I don't say you did not see a corn bunting, but I know I would have had a hard time to tell them apart in the field.

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts.

Last edited by cango : Thursday 9th May 2013 at 19:02.
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Old Saturday 11th May 2013, 21:31   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsh Peregrine View Post
Back in Victorian times people tried to "improve" the singing abilities of captive finches by exposing young to song from from other species - don't have any specific knowledge re: Bramblings however. Could it had found itself in an area where there were few Bramblings but many Chaffinches and grown up only being exposed to the wrong song?
I seem to remember reading somewhere years ago that chaffinches have been known to hybridize with bramblings. Captive bird breeders have hybridized various finch species with each other. House sparrows will hybridize with tree sparrows. I used to get a hybrid trouse sparrow visit my bird table. It's this inter breeding that may have resulted in tree sparrows vanishing from my local area recently.

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Old Saturday 11th May 2013, 22:55   #10
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Chaffinches have been known to hybridize with Bramblings and vice versa and will be subsequently sterile

Very probable but its not likely the only apparent transmuted characteristic as in this case was its faultless song

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Old Sunday 12th May 2013, 00:16   #11
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The bird appears to sing twice during the clip - the first time a chaffinch song is clear - the second time no sound appears to be produced at all.

Do you have a longer clip?

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Old Sunday 12th May 2013, 23:15   #12
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The bird appears to sing twice during the clip - the first time a chaffinch song is clear - the second time no sound appears to be produced at all.

Do you have a longer clip?

Geoff
weird - he sings indeed a second time, but somehow the audio is cut at the end.
The clip is that long. (you can access it here http://www.urtasunphoto.se/movie/PYZZ1072.mov (will not host it for long though, not sure how much bandwith video take. never done this before :-) )

But I uploaded another clip where you can hear him sing one more time (at the beginning)

http://www.birdforum.tv/members/acti...ffinch_song_2/

Last edited by cango : Sunday 12th May 2013 at 23:21.
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