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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Troubador's Mini Review: Black vs Grey SF (1 Viewer)

Troubador

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I have been using a black SF 8x42 recently and thought I would report a few impressions based on my experience of the older grey model. The obvious change is the colour of the armour and it looks handsome dressed in black, but I still rather like the grey look. On the surface the new armour appears to be in very similar to that on the HT. It feels a little firmer than the grey armour but pressing with my thumb it seems to have the same ridge and groove pattern on the underside for impact absorption, and Zeiss have confirmed this is indeed the case. I have heard a few complaints that some grey units had loose armour but I also heard that a few folks who thought their armour was loose had been misled by the slightly squashy feel to the armour resulting from the ridges and grooves. Whatever was going on there, the armour on this unit feels well glued-down.

The other change that Zeiss have reported is an improvement to the focusing mechanism. Most units of the grey models I tried were fine but one or two had a couple of tighter-feeling places along the focus travel. This black unit has a smooth feeling of great precision and consistency in both directions of travel. From my test target at 2.5 miles / 4km away to a point in my office 2 metres away is just about one single turn so there is no change in the gearing and it’s a bit faster than an HT or Swaro EL and for birding feels great, allowing a fast enough target acquisition but slow enough for accurate fine tuning. For butterfly and dragonfly watching I prefer a faster speed than this but for birding this seems about perfect to me.

The eyecups appear to have the same design as before but have been given an extra position with 4 available now. The new click, one up from fully down, suits my spectacles just fine. However, although they do the job, as usual on Zeisses, the eyecups just don’t feel as precision-made as they should, given the price of SF. I am referring to the small amounts of rotational free-play in each of the settings and the feeling that the click-stops aren’t quite as positive as they might be. However I have used SFs for a year and a half now and they have never actually moved from the set position so perhaps I am being too fussy.

At a local beauty spot I had a Moorhen and was immediately struck by the vividness of its red and yellow bill. It looked as if it was illuminated from within. In a nearby farmyard some fantastically handsome ducks covered in a vibrant dark green plumage shimmered with electric blue where the light caught it. This effect was similar to that of a male Mallard’s head plumage but much more intense. Moving to a small river valley in the nearby Peak District and scanning up the small river for possible Water Voles, some leaf-less small trees had branches that were almost red and stood out like strips of neon lights. They were Osier Willows and I have seen them in winter through SFs before but like the ducks and Moorhen mentioned above, the intensity of the colour was somewhat more than I was expecting.

Perceived sharpness, contrast and size of sweet spot appeared to be unchanged but I was intrigued by the small boost in colour reproduction and wanted to check it out further.

Back home I took both the black 8x and old grey 10x into our kitchen to watch for birds coming to our feeders mounted on a pole which, because our house is on the side of a hill, is actually below the kitchen. First to arrive were the stars of our local show: the Bullfinches. Called ‘Bull’ because for a finch they are chunky, the males are a bright pink with a jet black cap, while the females are a hard to describe brownish-greyish with a hint of pinkish. Alternating between the two bins I could see that the black 8x presented a slightly warmer image that was even noticeable on the female. In both cases their caps were a satisfying deep black. In between the Bullfinches dominating the feeders, the Blue Tits would swoop in and it took some time for one to stay still enough for me to be able to swap between bins a few times. The blue cap was definitely a little bluer through the black 8x. Note that I am talking about a subtle difference here although noticeable when comparing side-by-side. Could it be individual variation or have the T* coatings been tweaked?

I am sure that the move to black armour will be welcomed by those who were put off by the pale grey armour in which the model was launched and the tweaks to the focus and eyecup adjustability are definitely useful improvements.
 

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Thanks for the insight Lee, sounds like a discounted grey model could be a real bargain.

When I plumped for the SV, it was very, very close between these two.
 
Nice mini review Lee. I suspected the new black SF may have unannounced slight tweaking of the optics.
Why else would the gray be so heavily discounted. I think they responded really well to customer feedback and wanted to improve their product. After all the SF is their top bin and they want it to be as good as it can be.
 
Nice mini review Lee. I suspected the new black SF may have unannounced slight tweaking of the optics.
Why else would the gray be so heavily discounted. I think they responded really well to customer feedback and wanted to improve their product. After all the SF is their top bin and they want it to be as good as it can be.

Thanks for your kind words GiGi.

Dealers always discount discontinued models and the SF will not be available in grey any more so I guess the dealers just wanted them off the shelves. So yes the discounted ones are a real bargain.

Lee
 
Thanks for the insight Lee, sounds like a discounted grey model could be a real bargain.

When I plumped for the SV, it was very, very close between these two.

Thanks John. Its a close race amongst the top bins these days and each has got a strong appeal of its own.

Lee
 
Lee,

Thanks fo the report. I believe the work involved in the update has had a significant impact on the time lines for other future products. The differences don't sound very dramatic. I'm encouraged to hear though that the the red and blue has improved though. It would be nice if they have got rid of the 'green cast'. ;)

I've heard from a couple of sources that Zeiss representatives have been telling customers and dealers that they now "make sure their top-of-the-line binoculars meet the requirements of the most discerning observers". Do you know any more about this? Is it an optical upgrade, a change in QC or something else entirely? Something that particularly interests me of course, given a certain meeting at Birdfair.

David
 
Lee,

Thanks fo the report. I believe the work involved in the update has had a significant impact on the time lines for other future products. The differences don't sound very dramatic. I'm encouraged to hear though that the the red and blue has improved though. It would be nice if they have got rid of the 'green cast'. ;)

I've heard from a couple of sources that Zeiss representatives have been telling customers and dealers that they now "make sure their top-of-the-line binoculars meet the requirements of the most discerning observers". Do you know any more about this? Is it an optical upgrade, a change in QC or something else entirely? Something that particularly interests me of course, given a certain meeting at Birdfair.

David

I haven't heard anything about a campaign such as you mention in your last paragraph, but I suppose most companies feel they have to pull their socks up from time to time. The colour changes I mention are pretty subtle and you would really need a side by side comparison to notice it. I don't know if unit variation could cause anything like this but is seems unlikely that such variation could boost both red and blue, unless, I suppose, there was less green coming through. As you hint with your leg pull about the green cast, this is not something I see in this way and its the same for Leica, I don't see an overall warm tint either. But until I was writing this reply it hadn't struck me that maybe there has been an adjustment of the green transmission.

Lee
 
Lee,

You could do resolution tests to find out.:-O

The green cast was caused by a lack of blue and red not an excess of green. I see it as good news for birders if the view is now more neutral.

David
 
Lee,

You could do resolution tests to find out.:-O

The green cast was caused by a lack of blue and red not an excess of green. I see it as good news for birders if the view is now more neutral.

David

Actually I haven't made any new year's resolutions :-O

One would need to look through more than just this unit to find out if it is a genuine upgrade and its less than the step from FL to HT, in my opinion.

Lee
 
Lee,

It was the disbelieving response here to my grumbles about the evident variability of the FL resolution that provolked me into starting testing. It was comments about the variability of HT that got Gerold Dobbler to commit to overhauling the Zeiss QC. Wouldn't it be great news if the SF is now as good most would expect it to be.

David
 
Lee,

It was the disbelieving response here to my grumbles about the evident variability of the FL resolution that provolked me into starting testing. It was comments about the variability of HT that got Gerold Dobbler to commit to overhauling the Zeiss QC. Wouldn't it be great news if the SF is now as good most would expect it to be.

David

Yes it would. Herr Dobler has certainly been impossible to get hold of over recent months and indeed most of last year, come to think of it. Hmmm....

Lee
 
Would you say the sharpness / transparency is now more akin to your HT? Same with colour - now more neutral?

James

I am going to have to put your question on hold. The weather here is misty, cloudy and dark and more than half of the view from our house is shrouded or invisible.

Once the visibility picks up I will do a comparison. My gut feeling is that HT takes some beating for transparancy but lets wait and see.

Lee
 
Would you say the sharpness / transparency is now more akin to your HT? Same with colour - now more neutral?

James

We have had some better weather today so I have done a comparison.

Black SF 8x42 is very, very, very slightly warmer than the HT 8x42 and to me both are neutral. Sharpness I would say is the same but I reckon HT still has a bit of a lead when it comes to transparancy. SF of course has the monster FOV but HT still does that HT-thing of clarity. I can't find the right words to describe the difference as SF is not 'un-clear' but HT just has the little extra something and 'transparancy' is the nearest I can get to it.

At a quick glance through these two, I wouldn't think you would notice much difference apart from SF's FOV, but taking time and scanning the neighbourhood looking at different colours as well as blacks and whites then HT wins (just) on transparancy while SF wins on FOV and has an extra subtle warmth to the colours. Sharpness is a dead heat.

Lee
 
James

We have had some better weather today so I have done a comparison.

Black SF 8x42 is very, very, very slightly warmer than the HT 8x42 and to me both are neutral. Sharpness I would say is the same but I reckon HT still has a bit of a lead when it comes to transparancy. SF of course has the monster FOV but HT still does that HT-thing of clarity. I can't find the right words to describe the difference as SF is not 'un-clear' but HT just has the little extra something and 'transparancy' is the nearest I can get to it.

At a quick glance through these two, I wouldn't think you would notice much difference apart from SF's FOV, but taking time and scanning the neighbourhood looking at different colours as well as blacks and whites then HT wins (just) on transparancy while SF wins on FOV and has an extra subtle warmth to the colours. Sharpness is a dead heat.

Lee

Thanks, Lee. I concur.
My impressions are very similar to yours.

Canip
 
Wow that HT sounds like it has one of the best views ever.
I tried it a couple times at the store, but not enough time with it to
gather my own impressions of the view. I remember the SF feeling lighter.
Both have real nice ergonomics and focusing was super smooth on them.
 
Hi GiGi

Take a look at the pics and where the main weight of glass is and you can see why the SF feels light in the hand. The SF is on the right in the pic showing two bins and on its left is Swaro's EL SV. The bin on its own is HT with its long AK prisms.

Lee
 

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