Nice shots Derek - they've been too flighty for me to get a decent look at them eg in case one one were to have two bars?
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County Louth (formerly Dundalk Bay) local patch. (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter breffni
- Start date
Nice shots Derek - they've been too flighty for me to get a decent look at them eg in case one one were to have two bars?
Derek Watters
Well-known member
EXCELLENT find Breffni / Frankie. If it's the same bird, which seems very likely, hopefully it will hang around for another few weeks.
Juveniles are so cute |=)||=)|
doesnt look like a gull billed tern to me
BILL-short,but uniform,not broad based
CAP-doesnt appear to extend onto the the nape
UNDERWING-trailing edge seems diffuse and leading edge seems dark
COLLAR-is a feature of a juv.tern
had a conversation with Don Hodgers this evening and based on the evidence presented( the photo)
he tends to agree ..have you any other photos Breffni to convince us otherwise
www.flickr.com/photos/enda_flynn/
BILL-short,but uniform,not broad based
CAP-doesnt appear to extend onto the the nape
UNDERWING-trailing edge seems diffuse and leading edge seems dark
COLLAR-is a feature of a juv.tern
had a conversation with Don Hodgers this evening and based on the evidence presented( the photo)
he tends to agree ..have you any other photos Breffni to convince us otherwise
www.flickr.com/photos/enda_flynn/
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No - but Eric and Paul thought it was good based on the photo which is why i put it out - went down again yesterday but couldn't find any juv roseates without some white on lores/forehead - probably to put it down as an aberrant bird or aberrant photograph (or more likely aberrant photographer!)
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Helsinki Birder
Stealth Birder
You should always at least question. Killian has been wrong enough times in the past to warrant the use of your own brain every chance you get. ; )
I can think of at least one young birder who wasted his time on a plover that was obviously american to his eyes, asking the question "why is this a pacific?". And receiving the answer from those there present (including another member of the IRBC), " Because killian says its one."
Owen
I can think of at least one young birder who wasted his time on a plover that was obviously american to his eyes, asking the question "why is this a pacific?". And receiving the answer from those there present (including another member of the IRBC), " Because killian says its one."
Owen
Helsinki Birder
Stealth Birder
Im on mobile internet, and dont have the resolution on my handset to make any safe id. But Ive found enough gull billeds in ireland (and hundreds abroad) to be confident that the pics dont show this species, even on the basis of jizz. Your list of features listed earlier seems accurate. You made the right call in ruling out gull billed.
Owen
Owen
Enda, your identification of the bird as a juv Roseate is spot-on. I did not have access to a computer/email all week, until the early hours of Friday morning in the lobby of a Dublin hotel. A very quick, bleary-eyed look at the photo indicated that it was a juvenile Sandwich-type, certainly not a Gull-billed. It wasn't until I returned home yesterday afternoon that I had a proper look at the picture and could see that it is in fact a Roseate. Apart from the impression of small size, the suggestion of faint duskiness on the sides of the breast, a comparatively small neat bill and rather pale upper surface to the primaries are all more indicative of Roseate. As you're no doubt aware, the plumage of juv Roseate and Sandwich is remarkably similar, though in life the usually obvious size difference means there is seldom any real difficulty telling them apart.
As for Owen's remarks, I did indeed once struggle with an American/Pacific Golden Plover at Tacumshin that showed an unusually short (pro-Pacific) primary-projection, but on that occasion only one person arrived before dark to twitch a 'Pacific Golden Plover'. I realised my mistake soon afterwards so the word went out well before anyone arrived the following morning that I no longer considered the bird a Pacific, and that I urged all individuals to make up their own minds as to the identity of this tricky individual.
Most of us are now familiar with Owen's proclivity for making up stories and distorting events in order to either impugn the reputations of those whom he doesn't like (in particular all IRBC members), or give the impression of his own superior ability. This tale, like many others from Owen, is more wishful thinking on his part, than fact. I guess he just can't help himself.
As for Owen's remarks, I did indeed once struggle with an American/Pacific Golden Plover at Tacumshin that showed an unusually short (pro-Pacific) primary-projection, but on that occasion only one person arrived before dark to twitch a 'Pacific Golden Plover'. I realised my mistake soon afterwards so the word went out well before anyone arrived the following morning that I no longer considered the bird a Pacific, and that I urged all individuals to make up their own minds as to the identity of this tricky individual.
Most of us are now familiar with Owen's proclivity for making up stories and distorting events in order to either impugn the reputations of those whom he doesn't like (in particular all IRBC members), or give the impression of his own superior ability. This tale, like many others from Owen, is more wishful thinking on his part, than fact. I guess he just can't help himself.
gareth2005
Well-known member
Remember lads this is a public forum and viewable to all, maybe some discretion should be shown when naming individuals, I wouldnt be happy if ye were talking about me 
Helsinki Birder
Stealth Birder
Derek Watters
Well-known member
Great to see such experienced individuals as Owen and Killian coming on our local patch forum. But come on lads, lets draw a line under the who said what, who's right and who's wrong, etc, etc, etc (which is of no interest to most of us) and concentrate on the important subject here - the id of "Breffni's tern". I am a birder who respects everyone's opinion and have enjoyed the factual part of this debate.
Also, as Owen suggested it is good to question and so I ask the question - why is it that two birders who regularly watch the Cooley Point area (where various juv terns are common at this time of year) both believed this tern to be sufficiently different to suggest Gull Bill? Did they see something in it's behaviour etc, that would obviously be absent from a single photo?
Either way, I personally have learned a lot this past week about gull bills, that I would not have done otherwise. So, if nothing else, thanks for that alone!
Also, as Owen suggested it is good to question and so I ask the question - why is it that two birders who regularly watch the Cooley Point area (where various juv terns are common at this time of year) both believed this tern to be sufficiently different to suggest Gull Bill? Did they see something in it's behaviour etc, that would obviously be absent from a single photo?
Either way, I personally have learned a lot this past week about gull bills, that I would not have done otherwise. So, if nothing else, thanks for that alone!
Killian has been kind enough in the past to comment on various photos. On this occasion he was not available for personal reasons, so we decided that, rather than sit on the possible record, to release it with the photo so that folks could judge for themselves. In retrospect its hard to see how I and others concluded gull billed tern but part of the reason was the early eliminatin of all juv terns on the grounds that the forehead/lores appears to show no black in the shot. I was also unfamiliar with juv tern calls. I have since been able to observe several roseate juvs that show only a little white spotting on the forehead, not discernable at distance. In fact at the moment there is a mixed flock of two or three hundred arctic, common, roseate and sandwich terns with juveniles moving between shelling hill and ballagan point, showing particularly well at high tide on the rocks, affording a good opportunity to study them.
Without wishing to become embroiled in a potentially messy 'debate', I can at least vouch for the fact that, while in transit for said plover the morning after it was found, we received word via Colum Flynn that Killian had indeed begun to have serious doubts as to the ID of the bird as a Pacific, and all observers were encouraged to make up their own minds, as stated above.
I will admit to having found it quite difficult, despite the views being better than any golden plover species I had seen before (or since), and will raise my hands and admit to not having formed any solid conclusions in the field, short of it being a 'lesser golden plover'. Not for a minute, though, do I consider my time with the bird as being time wasted: such difficult birds as this are always educational, if one is provided to learn from the experience.
Back on topic, that sounds like a nice concentration of terns up in Co. Louth at the moment, got to be worth checking in case something good pops in with them. Bridled would probably tempt me to relax my 'reduced twitching' rules a bit...
Regards,
Harry
Peter Phillips
Well-known member
My my you have been busy boys since my last posting!
I was out at Baltray today and up to 2,000 Sterna Terns on the beach. All 5 breeding species present including juvs. A sight worth seeing.
1,500 Common Tern, 220 Sandwich Tern, 150 Little Tern, 50 Arctic Tern and 40 Roseate Tern. I was surprised at the rarity of Arctics. Also 155 Cormorant and a hundred or so Sanderling.Two Common Sandpiper on the river.
I was out at Baltray today and up to 2,000 Sterna Terns on the beach. All 5 breeding species present including juvs. A sight worth seeing.
1,500 Common Tern, 220 Sandwich Tern, 150 Little Tern, 50 Arctic Tern and 40 Roseate Tern. I was surprised at the rarity of Arctics. Also 155 Cormorant and a hundred or so Sanderling.Two Common Sandpiper on the river.
I thought my Robin was back once again as saw juvenile feeding on peanut feeder other day for few seconds just ....... so I went down garden to get closer in case it went on feeder again. I then realised very long and slim at back and when it turned around I noticed the orange patch was away down mid chest and brown up around face...... and last of all when it turned to fly away it definitely had an orange tail at the back. Puzzled. Robins do not have orange tails at the back.
Attachments
Peter Phillips
Well-known member
Colour ringed Sanderling
I had a colour ringed Sanderling at Baltray a few weeks back. An interesting story...........
Dear Peter,
I received an observation of a colour-ringed sanderling via Colin
Corse. Becuase I have been away to NE Greenland for my sanderling
studies, I have not been able to get back to you about this
observation earlier than today. Excuses for that. Interestingly, this
bird has been ringed by us in Greenland this summer. The bird was
called "Martin" after Martin Poot, who is part of the Sanderling
project team of the International Wader Study Group.
Its nest with four eggs was found on 27 June. On that day we caught
and colour-ringed sanderling "Luisa", its partner. "Martin" himself
was caught on 2 July. Unfortunately we found their empty nestcup on 6
July after a fox had visited the nest cup. Amazing that a week later
the bird is already on its return to its wintering area, as confirmed
by your observation.
If you are interested in reading more about our sanderling research,
you can visit our website:
http://www.waderstudygroup.org/res/project/sanderling.php
Also, I have attached a recent article published in the Wader Study
Group Bulletin that may be of interest to you.
I look forward to hear from you in the future if you have observed a
colour-ringed sanderling again.
with kind regards,
Jeroen Reneerkens
I had a colour ringed Sanderling at Baltray a few weeks back. An interesting story...........
Dear Peter,
I received an observation of a colour-ringed sanderling via Colin
Corse. Becuase I have been away to NE Greenland for my sanderling
studies, I have not been able to get back to you about this
observation earlier than today. Excuses for that. Interestingly, this
bird has been ringed by us in Greenland this summer. The bird was
called "Martin" after Martin Poot, who is part of the Sanderling
project team of the International Wader Study Group.
Its nest with four eggs was found on 27 June. On that day we caught
and colour-ringed sanderling "Luisa", its partner. "Martin" himself
was caught on 2 July. Unfortunately we found their empty nestcup on 6
July after a fox had visited the nest cup. Amazing that a week later
the bird is already on its return to its wintering area, as confirmed
by your observation.
If you are interested in reading more about our sanderling research,
you can visit our website:
http://www.waderstudygroup.org/res/project/sanderling.php
Also, I have attached a recent article published in the Wader Study
Group Bulletin that may be of interest to you.
I look forward to hear from you in the future if you have observed a
colour-ringed sanderling again.
with kind regards,
Jeroen Reneerkens
Here are photos of my lovely Greenfinch who seems a lot yellower and nicer than the usual ones. He or she I think as seems to be brooding comes daily now and usually just ground feeds although it has attempted peanut feeder for few seconds a couple of times but happier for me to leave seeds on ground for it. He is mostly always feeding alone except once I saw a similar bird for few minutes with him and it often stays feeding till quite late evening. He seems a bit sedentary to me and also a little tame as we sat on garden seat one evening quite near him and he wasnt one bit bothered. I think I was a little too close for comfort when I took these photos after he flew into the Damson tree by accident near me as he fluffed up his feathers but surprisingly still remained for a photo shoot. Absolutely beautiful bird close up and especially at the back when he opens out his tail feathers to show a pure lemon colour that you were not expecting to see as hidden really till then.
