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Mystery Nuthatches (1 Viewer)

this thread has made me realise that without a field guide i don't actually know the diagnostics are for separating rock from european (leg colour is one though?? something to do with u-t coverts and the supercilium also?). When i've seen rock nuthatch i have always "known" immediately however, and i think that's what these are..
 
jumping on rocks is a good clue... as is the bill, supercillium, underparts, utcovs etc

Tim

I see Mike Johnston has removed his post explaining the salient points of why these were European Nuthatch... sorry Mike! :D
 
Tim Allwood said:
I see Mike Johnston has removed his post explaining the salient points of why these were European Nuthatch... sorry Mike! :D
Click to expand...
Must admit I'm torn - can't plump down definitely on either side. Looks like Rock, but what are those white markings on the undertail coverts? Rock shouldn't have them.
 
Should not the difference between these two be found in the straight top line of the upper mandible?
In this bird it curves down. Thats not so found in WRN nor in ERN
Length of the bill matches WRN and not Nuthatch, which has shorter bill.
I find some paler whitish rather than grey feathers above the black eyeline, which is yes for Nuthatch and no for Western Rock Nuthatch.
But, in some angle it shows paler colour grey, which is the case here.
The rusty-ish colour on the belly is not good for WRN.
The lack of visible white edged outer secondaries when the wing is closed,is not good for Nuthatch.
On one side of its tail it shows white, but on the side which should be the better one, it is not found.
Again, undertail is not so well visible but as far as that is worth, I favour Nuthatch
Leg colour is as far as it is worth a match for WRN.
Its upright position is better for RN in general.

Even so there are some no's for WRN, and there is difference in the amount of rusty-ish on the belly between this bird and the key's I can use.
And especially the bill, which shows a curve(different from how it uses to be).

I change to WRN.

Well done Tim!
 
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It may look like Eastern Rock Nuthatch, but "southwestern Anatolia" is totally out of range. If I have to believe my field guide, they don't really occur west of Gaziantep...

So (if a Rock Nuthatch) it should be Western Rock Nuthatch.
The belly colour, hint of a supercilium, leg colour, and tail are all OK for Western Rock Nuthatch: http://www.birdpix.nl/album_search.php?search_type=pic_dutch_name&search=rotsklever&personal_album=0
Don't believe the guides which depict it with black legs and a near-white belly...
 
I agree with all of those declaiming the bird to be Western Rock Nuthatch (Sitta neumayer). The ranging race is syriaca.
 

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Hi Lou,
As far as I know it should be. Unless my memory fails me the photo was taken somewhere in south centralTurkey but I forget the exact locale. I remember checking the ranges at the time in order to exclude race dresseri of tephronota (the other of this once complex ranging in the south of Turkey). I concluded that on range it should have been race syriaca of neumayer. Can I be wrong, yes, as I am relying on my memory of what I did with this photo when relabeling it for my database. It all depends on if my recollection of the locale is indeed correct in being in south central Turkey.

EDIT: I retraced the photo and I think I have figured out what my reasoning was at the time. First, forget what I said above as my memory was faulty. The page for the photo is here: http://www.pbase.com/vandrefalk/tyrkiet_2005

I should mention that I am essentially clueless in most Germanic languages, including Danish. I am able to understand some things because of the many cognates between Danish and English and I think that I concluded that the shots (of the Nuthatch) were taken where the other birds on the page were photographed (apparently near the Caucasus in NE Turkey). So, I undoubtedly extrapolated from there and considered it to be Sitta neumayer, but not race syriaca, rather race rupicola. However, I am still not out of the woods here as I don't know why I excluded race obscura of tephronota which should be sympatric presuming NE Turkey.
 
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I watched a vidio last night with Sitta tephronota, Eastern Rock Nuthatch, as in that video, it shows an eyestripe as broad as in the picture of Steve and often broader.
The two pictures in this thread, show eyestripes good for neumayer, not good for tephronota which, again showed an eyestripe, some times as broad as on Steves picture but often broader.
 
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