• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

'Ethical' binocular companies (1 Viewer)

Pileatus said:
I think a comet impact might alter your thinking a bit.
Click to expand...

Well if the comet was to strike me or my neighbourhood it would certainly get my attention.

Not quite sure what a random event like a comet strike has got to do with the consequences arising from the actions of homo sapiens, but as a picture to conjour with its more interesting than trying to see yellow-green tints on another thread.

Lee
 
jremmons said:
Somewhat true, that. Master Naturalist programs are a good thing to do as well; I just recently taught one of the sections on wildlife management.

JE
Click to expand...


I have met some really interesting state wild life biologists at the meetings, it's an interesting profession.
 
Pileatus said:
May I suggest you look up the definition of enrich.
Click to expand...

I would suggest you look up the definition of shit job. I'm not sure of the job GG is doing, but I have had more than a few that did nothing other than allow to me to exist, they were tedious, stressful and probably shortened my life thru higher blood pressure. The only thing that kept me going was the thought of beating the dog shit out of a couple of the managers the day I quit. They both got fired and when I left I was not tempted, so probably avoided an assault charge.
 
perterra said:
You should see if your area has a master naturalist chapter, it is very interesting and you will get a chance to spend a lot of time with pros in every aspect of conservation.


http://txmn.org/


.
Click to expand...

That's really cool. I would like to be a well rounded naturalist eventually and do more than just go bird watching. We have programs sort of like this here, but there just never is enough time. I'm completely drained from the work week and the weekend is just not enough to include all of the things I want to persue while including errands, choirs , etc. I hope I can retire someday, but I'm not sure if I ever will be able to. I got into birding late...only like 7-8 years ago and it started out casual, but now I'm totally absorbed. As previously mentioned , I took the home study course in bird biology (in 2011) which was comprehensive and took some months to complete. I'd like to learn much more. I wish I had more energy and time.
 
Subzero888 said:
All plants and meat consumed now are farmed by corporations in all the wealthy nations.
Click to expand...
Although corporations do control much of the mid- and downstream food supply chain, farming itself is still predominantly in the hands of small and mid-sized enterprises, often family owned and run.
 
Gilmore Girl said:
That's really cool. I would like to be a well rounded naturalist eventually and do more than just go bird watching. We have programs sort of like this here, but there just never is enough time. I'm completely drained from the work week and the weekend is just not enough to include all of the things I want to persue while including errands, choirs , etc. I hope I can retire someday, but I'm not sure if I ever will be able to. I got into birding late...only like 7-8 years ago and it started out casual, but now I'm totally absorbed. As previously mentioned , I took the home study course in bird biology (in 2011) which was comprehensive and took some months to complete. I'd like to learn much more. I wish I had more energy and time.
Click to expand...

If you have a university nearby, sign up for a summer Field Zoology course, if they offer it.
 
JabaliHunter said:
Although corporations do control much of the mid- and downstream food supply chain, farming itself is still predominantly in the hands of small and mid-sized enterprises, often family owned and run.
Click to expand...

I am a farmer as some know on here, the spring migration of geese has had
thousands of geese on my farm in recent weeks, and I had a bald eagle pass
through my yard last Monday.

I just saw my first Northern Flicker on Thursday, and I enjoy the robins that love to eat the old flowering crab berries that fall to the ground, a nice energy source for them.

You are correct, farms are very much connected to wildlife, as they
are part of the farm.

Jerry
 
So, as a summary, what was generally agreed as the top three 'unethical' binocular companies, as outlined by the concerns of the op?

I'm just guessing -

Swarovski - proportionally, more of their website seems devoted to hunting. Outstanding unapologetic photography of hunting in action and hunting scenery. Hunting has the largest sub menu on their entire website (in site map)

Zeiss - a bit soft...distant photos of a gun strapped to a backpack etc.

Leica - nice close up photos of fancy rifles, but not many action shots or top hunting scenery.
 
Last edited:
Rathaus said:
So, as a summary, what was generally agreed as the top three 'unethical' binocular companies, as outlined by the concerns of the op?

I'm just guessing -

Swarovski - proportionally, more of their website seems devoted to hunting. Outstanding unapologetic photography of hunting in action and hunting scenery. Hunting has the largest sub menu on their entire website (in site map)

Zeiss - a bit soft...distant photos of a gun strapped to a backpack etc.

Leica - nice close up photos of fancy rifles, but not many action shots or top hunting scenery.
Click to expand...

There is also the factor of conservation projects and organisations that these companies support or sponsor.

For example Swarovski supports Rhino and Dalmation Pelican conservation projects while Zeiss also supports a Rhino project and several nature conservation / birding organisations. Not sure about Leica but probably they do their share as well.

Lee
 
Not one of these companies is unethical regarding hunting. The so-called "ethical consumer" is assumed to be anti-hunting and, therefore, should be anti-anything that fosters the sport. That is a personal ethic. These companies do not consider hunting unethical and, therefore, are not in violation of their corporate ethics. This whole debate spins wildly around a false notion of ethics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics
 
Troubador said:
There is also the factor of conservation projects and organisations that these companies support or sponsor.

For example Swarovski supports Rhino and Dalmation Pelican conservation projects while Zeiss also supports a Rhino project and several nature conservation / birding organisations. Not sure about Leica but probably they do their share as well.

Lee
Click to expand...

Yes Zeiss cautiously advertise their conservation on each page, including the hunting pages.

Swarovski are blissfully and comfortably at peace with their proud and rich hunting heritage.

Leica - plays it quieter, but you do get the feeling that given enough $ Leica would outfit one of their glitzy special edition Ultravids in albino chimp leather.
 
I think that a good summary of this thread would be that equating hunting with being "unethical" is probably a misuse of that word. I think what you are looking for is: which companies cater to hunting the most? This way you can leave the value judgements to a separate thread if you are really looking for this information.
 
Pileatus said:
Not one of these companies is unethical regarding hunting. The so-called "ethical consumer" is assumed to be anti-hunting and, therefore, should be anti-anything that fosters the sport. That is a personal ethic. These companies do not consider hunting unethical and, therefore, are not in violation of their corporate ethics. This whole debate spins wildly around a false notion of ethics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics
Click to expand...

I agree with you, and Swarovski's approach and website is entirely congruent with a rich and proud history of hunting. They love it. Watering it down is not in their make up. Some ambivalence re hunting can be detected on the Leica and Zeiss websites, which panders to those you are refuting in your statement. Personally, I prefer Swarovski's clear and confident framework.

I've certainly got no problem with Zeiss, Swarovski or Leica. I only referred to the ranking in reference to the concerns of the OP, with a view that the top (or bottom) ranking hunting optics will also probably be the best optics.

I'm more than happy to take care of anybody's newly unloved optics due to that company's association with hunting.
 
Last edited:
Thought it might be worth resurrecting this thread for the purpose of raised awareness though it's lengthy and I admit I haven't read the earlier comments. I found this very useful article:

http://www.ethicalconsumer.org/portals/0/downloads/optics report.pdf

Basically Leica, Swarovski, Bushnell, Vortex among those strongly pro-hunting. And let's look at the main photography brands: Canon scores well. Nikon a disgrace. Thankfully I'm a Canon owner but also a Leica 'scope owner so very disappointed there.

I disagree with the above statement that being so pro-hunting is unethical. Trophy hunting should have been banned centuries ago and the scumbags involved locked up. These companies care nothing for the wildlife, only their own profits. Some may try to appear to be sponsoring conservation projects to counter this but likely to be a gimmick for damage limitation in my view.

Anyway few birders realise what these manufacturers are tied up with so hopefully some might reconsider their next purchase. I personally don't want to sponsor the sponsors of the extinction of threatened species.
 
Jhanlon said:
Thought it might be worth resurrecting this thread for the purpose of raised awareness though it's lengthy and I admit I haven't read the earlier comments. I found this very useful article:

http://www.ethicalconsumer.org/portals/0/downloads/optics report.pdf

Basically Leica, Swarovski, Bushnell, Vortex among those strongly pro-hunting. And let's look at the main photography brands: Canon scores well. Nikon a disgrace. Thankfully I'm a Canon owner but also a Leica 'scope owner so very disappointed there.

I disagree with the above statement that being so pro-hunting is unethical. Trophy hunting should have been banned centuries ago and the scumbags involved locked up. These companies care nothing for the wildlife, only their own profits. Some may try to appear to be sponsoring conservation projects to counter this but likely to be a gimmick for damage limitation in my view.

Anyway few birders realise what these manufacturers are tied up with so hopefully some might reconsider their next purchase. I personally don't want to sponsor the sponsors of the extinction of threatened species.
Click to expand...
Sometimes its also worth letting sleeping dogs lie...
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but thankfully that doesn't make them all true...
 
From Der Buk:

Vignette # 29

The Reps Get Frustrated, Too

In a conversation with the representative of one of the largest and most respected binocular manufacturers, I heard:

“You’re right, it’s all manufacturer driven; I can’t deny that. The guys at the top want more and more of the market share, and that means pushing boxes out of the plant. That’s all it comes down to—boxes, not optics.”

And in speaking about quality with a long-time representative from another binocular giant, I heard:

“Believe me when I say I have plenty of frustration in trying to deal fairly with consumers and dealers. Although I have been with the company more than 20 years, I’m still treated like an outsider.”

Other representatives share similar stories. :cat:

Bill
 
With big companies maybe.

I have known reps with big companies treated shamefully after devoting a lifetime to the company.
A complete lack of ethics, and in the 1960s or 1970s.
The world today is even more brutal.

With smaller companies the Representatives are the business.
Without them the company would fail.
 
Warning! This thread is more than 7 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Similar threads

M
Rarity of technical binocular reviews
2
Replies
24
Views
3K
agus_m
A
Troubador
Troubador's life with Binoculars
Replies
9
Views
2K
Maljunulo
M
J
My First Experience Purchasing Birding Binoculars
Replies
11
Views
2K
tenex
tenex
G
GPO Binoculars
Replies
1
Views
1K
Reesyd
R
B
Glasses wearers - most comfortable 10x42 you have found?
3 4 5
Replies
94
Views
13K
Tero
Tero

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top