To be clear the "Made in Germany" quote above refers to Conquest HD and not Terra.
Lee
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What did I miss? Terra ED??? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter St. Elmo
- Start date
To be clear the "Made in Germany" quote above refers to Conquest HD and not Terra.
Lee
Hi St Elmo
Sloppy is correct. The new Terra pages are copied and pasted from the ConqHD pages with technical details changed. Trouble is there are a couple of references in there to Conquest HD, a photo of an HD etc....
Terra ED has yet to appear on CZ D or UK sites.
Lee
Hermann
Well-known member
How do you know? Have you got any reliable sources?
Or is your statement - as so much of the stuff you write, I might add - just pure speculation and nothing but speculation?
Hermann
jan van daalen
Well-known member
Lee and others,
When a new model comes out, the Center dealers are the first to know. At that time we were a Zeiss Center dealer. Zeiss made a mistake in their announcment about the Conquest HD by putting the words Made in Germany between " " .
So I asked the Dutch importer of Zeiss why they communicated this like Zeiss did and asked him flat out if the talks were true that this model was made by Kamakura onder strict Zeiss quality controls, such as giving Kamakura the High Vacuum coating technology needed for the Conquest HD model.
Now comes something you need to understand. If I ask my supplier a question about goods he delivers to me and he lies about it, he is gone.
And they all know this.
The answer was that this model was made by Kamakura. This was at the German IWA. Let's say the European Shot show. Later on, the Zeiss marketing machine began moving as the talks about Zeiss outsourcing to Japan (as they allready did with the rangefinder) became louder and louder.
From that moment the answer became: "Why is this relevant? Even when it is true, so what. It is always made under Zeiss quality control", to "It is not true. The "Made in Germany" quote was a writing failure and should have been from the beginning Made in Germany, but all the brochures are allready made.
So that is the Zeiss official statement. Maybe some Zeiss representative can share us with information on this matter?
For me it is not a big deal. But I need to inform my customers in Holland correctly when they ask me about this subject. And they did, that's why I checked with Zeiss.
Personally I disagree with the fact that an A brand outsources to others, but that is out of my reach. I do have to inform my customers about the fact they don't buy genuine Zeiss material but outsourced material, when I know that's the fact.
Lee,
I put two posts in one. And now it looks like I commented things while you did not said it. Sorry for that. My mistake.
Jan
brocknroller
porromaniac
Hey, Munster, I know because I buy them at Walmart and "Made in China" is written on the box.
Unfortunately, I can't focus close enough with my camera to see the fine print on the back of the box, but there's a gray highlighted area that lists phone numbers for Carl Zeiss Vision in the US and Canada, below that it says "Distributed by Carl Zeiss Vision, San Diego, CA" and next to that: Made in China.
Mooreorless buys them at Walmart too, he can confirm it. His camera has a macro lens, he can probably image that part of the box since it's obvious that your national pride makes it hard for you to believe that the prestigious "blue shield" could be attached to anything "Made in China".
Welcome to globalization!
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Hi Jan
Thanks for your explanation. I think that you are saying the Conquest is made by Kamakura but the following sentence is puzzling:
Made in Germany should have been Made in Germany ? And yet it is made in in SE Asia? Perhaps you could employ your Dutch plain-English and explain this.
I am also unclear about the following:
To me this seems to say first you don't mind Zeiss out-sourcing but second you disagree with it.............
On the other hand its Monday today and everyone should be allowed extra consideration on Mondays.
Lee
Thanks for your explanation. I think that you are saying the Conquest is made by Kamakura but the following sentence is puzzling:
Made in Germany" quote was a writing failure and should have been from the beginning Made in Germany, but all the brochures are allready made.
Made in Germany should have been Made in Germany ? And yet it is made in in SE Asia? Perhaps you could employ your Dutch plain-English and explain this.
I am also unclear about the following:
For me it is not a big deal...........
Personally I disagree with the fact that an A brand outsources to others,
Personally I disagree with the fact that an A brand outsources to others,
To me this seems to say first you don't mind Zeiss out-sourcing but second you disagree with it.............
On the other hand its Monday today and everyone should be allowed extra consideration on Mondays.
Lee
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Steve C
Well-known member
Sometimes you have a bad day. Never should have used that terminology :eek!:. It was not intended to be aimed at anyone specifically and I should have used milder language. Apologies to all for the gaffe.
james holdsworth
Consulting Biologist
jan van daalen
Well-known member
Hallo Lee,
You are right. I wear two hats, for me that's normal but it could be strange for some one else.
My private "hat" thinks that A brands are A brands because of the perfection.
They should not outsource because of the fact that the customer thinks he/she is buying the original brand stuff.
My retailers "hat" tells me that is does not matters what the customer buys, as long as he buys the optics he needs and the brand or origine is not important as long as it fills the needs. But he/she must know!
The mentioning of "Made in Germany" instead of the legal way Made in Germany how it had to be on the Zeiss catalog raised a lot of questions about the origins of the Conquest HD. This was done on purpose by Zeiss, on marketing level, to prevent problems because they did outsource the model but did not want the future customers to know. A bit naive in this world of internet, but that's how it went down according to my Zeiss representative at the end of this soap.
So the first Zeiss reaction was:
It's true!; then came: is this really an issue?; followed by: it was a misprint in the catalog, but they were allready printed so we handed them out, but the Conquest HD is genuine Made in Germany.
A nice example how Marketing and Sales and Advertisement Departments communicated at Zeiss on this matter (and still do).
I hope this makes it a bit more clear.
My only excuse for my Dutch English is that I am a autodidact.
Jan
jan van daalen
Well-known member
James,
Yes, and also for plenty other brands.
Meopta did produce the scopes for Leica and Zeiss (not the current ones).
As long origine is undisputed it's a matter of company policy, but it becomes IMHO an other matter when it's denied.
Jan.
At those $350'ish prices you can bet you're bottom dollar they aren't made in Germany. Probably many Asian parts inside. There's a Schott plant in China, you know.
Who knows what Zeiss meant by the quotation marks? I wonder if in Germany they realize that here in the US the "quotation marks" are popularly abused, by both the uneducated and the educated, and we make fun of ourselves for this habit.
I recall popular humorist Dave Barry, in his guise as Mr. Word Person, on the subject:
Dear MWP,
Please give three examples of the correct use of quotation marks.
"Confused"
Dear "Confused",
"Try" our hotdogs.
Try "our" hotdogs.
Try our "hotdogs".
MWP
Now, would Zeiss think that was funny? Anyhow, to me the quotations suggest that the binocular is not made in Germany at all!
Ron
I recall popular humorist Dave Barry, in his guise as Mr. Word Person, on the subject:
Dear MWP,
Please give three examples of the correct use of quotation marks.
"Confused"
Dear "Confused",
"Try" our hotdogs.
Try "our" hotdogs.
Try our "hotdogs".
MWP
Now, would Zeiss think that was funny? Anyhow, to me the quotations suggest that the binocular is not made in Germany at all!
Ron
RJM
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
I suspect sales of the highend binoculars have been generally flat for several years now and the only way to increase sales for a luxury brand is to go downmarket. Sometimes rather than dilute the established brands image, they start/buy a new brand/product line. More Sku's hitting more pricepoints. Pretty much SOP for most manufacturing/retailing businesses looking for growth.
Frankly, I am pretty stoked about the possibility of a sub-$500 Zeiss. More so than I was even about the Nikon Monarch ED.
Frankly, I am pretty stoked about the possibility of a sub-$500 Zeiss. More so than I was even about the Nikon Monarch ED.
Hallo Lee,
You are right. I wear two hats, for me that's normal but it could be strange for some one else.
My private "hat" thinks that A brands are A brands because of the perfection.
They should not outsource because of the fact that the customer thinks he/she is buying the original brand stuff.
My retailers "hat" tells me that is does not matters what the customer buys, as long as he buys the optics he needs and the brand or origine is not important as long as it fills the needs. But he/she must know!
The mentioning of "Made in Germany" instead of the legal way Made in Germany how it had to be on the Zeiss catalog raised a lot of questions about the origins of the Conquest HD. This was done on purpose by Zeiss, on marketing level, to prevent problems because they did outsource the model but did not want the future customers to know. A bit naive in this world of internet, but that's how it went down according to my Zeiss representative at the end of this soap.
So the first Zeiss reaction was:
It's true!; then came: is this really an issue?; followed by: it was a misprint in the catalog, but they were allready printed so we handed them out, but the Conquest HD is genuine Made in Germany.
A nice example how Marketing and Sales and Advertisement Departments communicated at Zeiss on this matter (and still do).
I hope this makes it a bit more clear.
My only excuse for my Dutch English is that I am a autodidact.
Jan
Hi Jan
Thanks Jan, all clear now. I didn't realise the quotation marks had a "legal" significance in the EU. On the CZ website the 'made in Germany' phrase appears both without quotation marks, as a heading in bold, as well as with quotation marks in the text.
Outsourcing is a fact of life in the global economy and if it delivers products that meet or exceed customers' expectations (and the ConqHD certainly exceeded mine) then thats great. But making the 'made in Germany' claim one of the three pillars of your marketing message (HD Lens System, Compact and Lightweight, Made in Germany) when it is apparently fundamentally a product of a South-East Asian factory is distasteful.
It would have been better to have made no claims at all about its origin.
However, all that said, the Conquest HD is a terrific piece of kit and deserves to succeed.
Lee
jan van daalen
Well-known member
Lee,
It seems that, for you, it takes only one sentence to come to the point, as where I need a half page.
But I agree fully with your post.
Jan
It seems that, for you, it takes only one sentence to come to the point, as where I need a half page.
But I agree fully with your post.
Jan
