[tazzilla]

I have been going through binoculars like a kid goes through socks. I have had Alpen Shasta Ridge Not bad at all for the price good quality and life time no hassale warranty 10x42 a bit heavy poor eye cups but over all nice for under $200 Then I had a pair of Alpen Rainier HD ED Alpens Top of the Line Now this is Alpha Class all the way competes with any glass in the $1000-$1500 range all day long. I paid $650 as a Demo pair really like them but I need the cash to fund my 68 Mustang restore project so I sold them and borke even but had the pleasure to really try thme out. Again these were top notch glass not perfect but close to it. About 85% edge to edge clearity very bright and the sweet spot was crystal clear and had a great FOV 341 at 1000 yards for a 10x43. I will miss them. During my quest of getting some Binoculars I stumbled across a deal on a older pair of Bausch & Lomb 7x42 discoverer and picked them up for $110 really a nice fun pair to use I would rate this in the middle the perform very well easy to handle with the lower power not as bright as the newer glass but still very nice glass. My wife really likes them as she can use them with her glasses on better than any other pair we have tried. So by far not the best optics but the ones that she can use with the most easy and comfort. In my book that makes them a perfect pair because they will get used.
I bought a new pair of Zen Ray Ed3 for $395 OTD and these were to try and replace the Alpen Rainier loved the brightness and they were really clear in the sweet spot. However after 2 days of use I had to return them. I really had trouble with black outs and I seemed to struggle to find them easy to use. I was always trying to get them positioned where I had a good view through them. It was really hard to enjoy them. The focus was a bit touchy also. The other thing I noticed was higher than normal eye strain while using. I think that was because of the higher than normal strain to find a good view through them. Needless to say they went back. Well yesterday on Craigslist I found a pair of Zen Ray ZRS 10x42 for $140 ith binocular harness. I was interested but also very concerned that I would have the same issue with these as the ED3 I just returned. I must say I am very pleased with them they are lighter have a better focus system not as bright but with out a doubt bright enough and they really are clearer than I expected. I really feel I scored this time I have a pair I can use with ease they look very nice optically and the price was fantastic. So I now have $250 invesed into my two pair of optics and he best part is they will get used all the time. Will these be the last two pairs I ever buy heck no, but it will be hard to find something that is so well priced to value that it will make the next purchase that much harder.
Two thumbs up for Zen ray and 1 1/2 for the Buasch & Lomb.

[BruceH]

Did you happen to check if both eye cups extended to the same length on the ED3?

I recall reading a review (I think by Henry Link) were he had an ED3 sample with a defective eye cup that did not extend to the full length, so the two sides were not the same. I wonder if your unit had the same issue.

I have an ED2 and every so often I inadvertently turn in one eye cup a notch. The result is a view similar to what you described. Once I turn the eye cup back out to match the other side, everythng is great.

Your review caught my attention because I have a Prime HD on order and it is my understanding that the Prime is based on the ED3 but with lens flatteners.

[tazzilla]

Bruce I had thought the same thing at first but they looked aven side to side. My bausch & Lomb eye piece one the left side drops easy and I will have that happen every so often. Not a big deal as my wife uses them 90% of the time with glasses

[BruceH]

Thanks for the update. Hopefully, your experience was just a fluke.

[Steve C]

A couple of things here. First the ZEN ED 3 7x43 has more eye relief than it needs for some, or looked at another way the eye cups don't extend far enough. There was an extensive 7x43 thread that went through this and might have helped if you had looked it over.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=211937

Look at my post #20. I had the same problem as you did and found it was an easy fix. I posted the pictures for the fix. The eye relief/blackout does not seem to be as much of an issue with the 8x and 10x ED 3's. Whatever, the individual sensitvity is, the 7x needs to be further away from the eye for many people than either the 8x 0r 10x.

The Prime HD is NOT an ED 3 with field flatteners. If that was the case, we'd have seen it long ago. It is a piano hinge style binocular and is a unique design from the ED series. There have been a couple of changes to the Prime during its evolution. The time consumers have been changing prism configuration to play nicer with the eye piece design, fiddling with different diopter adjustments, and getting the pincushion right. The prism thing involved a redo of the concept and the final Prime is not the one in Frank's initial thread.

[eitanaltman]

Another reason why you have to try them yourself. Always buy with a good return policy or at a price low enough where you can resell with little pain. Although I love the ED3 optics I (and others) have found their eye relief to be on the edge of "too much". (and BTW that was with 8x43, it's not true that excessive ER is only an issue with 7x43). I was able to get by fine with my ED3 after finding a comfy position, but if you cant use a pair without blackouts it's a real annoyance.

I actually had to send back a pair of ED3 with uneven eyecups. Sample variation can be an issue.

[tazzilla]

Originally Posted by Steve C

A couple of things here. First the ZEN ED 3 7x43 has more eye relief than it needs for some, or looked at another way the eye cups don't extend far enough. There was an extensive 7x43 thread that went through this and might have helped if you had looked it over.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=211937

Look at my post #20. I had the same problem as you did and found it was an easy fix. I posted the pictures for the fix. The eye relief/blackout does not seem to be as much of an issue with the 8x and 10x ED 3's. Whatever, the individual sensitvity is, the 7x needs to be further away from the eye for many people than either the 8x 0r 10x.

The Prime HD is NOT an ED 3 with field flatteners. If that was the case, we'd have seen it long ago. It is a piano hinge style binocular and is a unique design from the ED series. There have been a couple of changes to the Prime during its evolution. The time consumers have been changing prism configuration to play nicer with the eye piece design, fiddling with different diopter adjustments, and getting the pincushion right. The prism thing involved a redo of the concept and the final Prime is not the one in Frank's initial thread.

I did not want to modify something that was brand new it was simplier just to return them