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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Expriencing the Papilio II 6.5x21 (1 Viewer)

I've seen the Leica Ultravid 8x20 and Steiner Ultrasharp 8x22 of a friend (he has the Papilio also, he might post himself).
The Pentax stands in the middle. Leica is impressive with great coatings (I have Papilio I) and folded it is a small jewel. But I prefer to use the Papilio with it's unique makro mode and affordable price, since I always carry a bag.
 
Having both the Zeiss Conquest 8x20 and some 6.5 Papillo II {until I lost the Zeiss :(}I would have to say the Zeiss wins on everything except the close focusing. The Zeiss is lighter, much more compact and has much greater clarity of image. The Papillo is very good for £100 but it is still a third the price of the Zeiss. The Zeiss is small enough to carry in your hand or dangling on a wrist strap and not notice whereas the Papillo just isn't.

I'm not knocking the Papillo, it is great for the money and the close up views are amazing but it is "horses for courses" and as an everyday carry stick it in your pocket binocular it would be the Zeiss every time. (My wife informs me that mine are still "missing" and more searching is required before I can buy some new ones)
 
So, the Papilio is big enough not to be misplaced and cheap enough not to cause mourning if stolen. What's the problem with that? ;)
 
I'm shocked by these posts. I cannot imagine anything as small objective wise as amazing as the Papilio 6.5 I got and even if it is a particularly good one it can't be that much different from the rest but I'm happy to be well satisfied if that is somehow the case.

Guess we all got our problems.

Edit: sorry about this one as I had a few to many Guinesss yesterday while away for the day and could hardly see the screen last night. Don't even know how I got home? but my Papilio do have incredible quality of view.
 
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Having both the Zeiss Conquest 8x20 and some 6.5 Papillo II {until I lost the Zeiss :(}I would have to say the Zeiss wins on everything except the close focusing. The Zeiss is lighter, much more compact and has much greater clarity of image. The Papillo is very good for £100 but it is still a third the price of the Zeiss. The Zeiss is small enough to carry in your hand or dangling on a wrist strap and not notice whereas the Papillo just isn't.

You forgot field of view and exit pupil. The papillo in 6.5x is better at both and not by a small margin. The larger exit pupil makes placement less finicky and will make the papillo work longer in fading light, despite the fact that the Zeiss is brighter in plain daylight.
Plus it has twist up eye cups for those with spectacles and a decent strap...

The Conquest Compact is just a pocket bin - I have mine always in the backpack for unexepected opportunities. I would not consider it as my only bins.
The Papillo II in 6.5x is quite different - not pocketable but still quite small and light and it can easily double as your only bin with slightly lower expectations. With the close focus range as a bonus.

I'm shocked by these posts. I cannot imagine anything as small objective wise as amazing as the Papilio 6.5 I got and even if it is a particularly good one it can't be that much different from the rest but I'm happy to be well satisfied if that is somehow the case.

Guess we all got our problems.

Edit: sorry about this one as I had a few to many Guinesss yesterday while away for the day and could hardly see the screen last night. Don't even know how I got home? but my Papilio do have incredible quality of view.

The example in 6.5x which I gave to my goddaughter is very nice too - I gave it a good test drive ;-) And so was the demo unit in the store.

And you say it also gives a clearer view when pissed? I guess I have to get another one then ;-)

Joachim
 
Did you notice loss of sharpness contrast etc beyond, say, 250 metres- please see the original post?

Oetzis test in the german forum was a castle at 4km - sure something good with larger objectives like a 7 or 10x50 will show better resolution at that range. But at a price - monetary and in what you carry...

Joachim
 
Hello,
I am new to the forum, a cordial greeting.
Yesterday I received my Pentax Papilio II 6.5x21mm, and I have a doubt.
The image is quite good, but up close, observe what you see in the attached image. Do you suffer from the same effect ?. This happens focusing between 1m and 10m approx.
Can you get one circle? I'm afraid who are misaligned.

Regards

Edu
 

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Hello,
I am new to the forum, a cordial greeting.
Yesterday I received my Pentax Papilio II 6.5x21mm, and I have a doubt.
The image is quite good, but up close, observe what you see in the attached image. Do you suffer from the same effect ?. This happens focusing between 1m and 10m approx.
Can you get one circle? I'm afraid who are misaligned.

Regards

Edu
That's entirely normal and due to parallax between the two different barrels. It can be altered, to an extent, by changing IPD (ie. the distance between eyepieces) but can't really be eliminated at close focusing distances. The central area of overlap provides the detailed views while the areas with no overlap between views are pretty much useful for peripheral vision only.

...Mike
 
That's entirely normal and due to parallax between the two different barrels. It can be altered, to an extent, by changing IPD (ie. the distance between eyepieces) but can't really be eliminated at close focusing distances. The central area of overlap provides the detailed views while the areas with no overlap between views are pretty much useful for peripheral vision only.

...Mike

It's right that this is normal but it cannot be fixed by changing the IPD with the Papillo due to the fact that this only changes the distance between the eyepieces while leaving the objective distance alone.

In the papillo the distance of the objectives is changed automatically by focussing in order to be able to focus down to half a meter...

Joachim
 
it cannot be fixed by changing the IPD with the Papillo due to the fact that this only changes the distance between the eyepieces while leaving the objective distance alone.
Quite right, and I should have been clearer - adjusting the IPD can expand or contract the non-overlapping areas of the view "to an extent" by reducing or increasing the visible field of view but can't adjust the central overlapping area.

...Mike
 
it's now 2021, post COVID-19, and time to bring this thread back to life!!

Personally I've been using the Papilio II 6.5x21 for the last 6 months on daily walks of 2 or 3 hours through fields and woods and in summary I can highly recommend this binocular as a new eye-opening experience even on those 30 to 40 km of hiking trail that I had spent years exploring!

The optics are fine, in fact surprisingly good.

Color, contrast, details - whatever the technical magic used in their construction (details easily found in specifications in other posts and web pages), the fact of the matter is in the viewing and the experience at the user end of the binos, and even though I'm very demanding of image quality these have never let me down.

It's the wow factor every time I focus on something close by! And now that summer is here, distant views are not crisp due to heat waves and air turbulence, something these fine optics clearly show just by trying to look at something above a field of dry wheat ready to be harvested (which makes me wonder if the reviewer who posted that these optics aren't good for distant objects really knows what he is talking about, I suggest he try using telescopes to understand the effects of atmosphere on image quality before emitting judgements on this Papilio's optic path performance)!

So forget MTF functions and the like - if you compare these to any other 21 mm diameter objective lens for close-up, mid and far distances, and we are talking of 50cm close focus distance - there is nothing that performs across this focus range that is even in the same league.

Nothing beats the experience at the eyepieces of these fine binos!!
 
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But for observing far birds?

Hi,

it's fine too for observing birds. It delivers a view in line with its size and weight, that is pocket size.

An 8x32 or larger pair will offer a wider afov and a brighter view, but at the price of more bulk and not as close-up views of insects or plants...

Choose your poison...

Joachim
 
Just imagine if they built one like a true Alpha binocular.
Magnesium body, best lenses and coatings and mechanics.
Bump up the AFOV to 60-65 and that would be an instant buy from me!
 
Just imagine if they built one like a true Alpha binocular.
Magnesium body, best lenses and coatings and mechanics.
Bump up the AFOV to 60-65 and that would be an instant buy from me!
I'll begin by taking the liberty to define Alpha binos in a matter-of-fact physics sense: stay away from roof prisms.
Next item, magnesium body is to keep weight low - these are already low weight so no need to use exotic materials.
As for lenses and coatings the Papilio II are already at or exceed roof prism alpha binos in transmission values when color, resolution and contrast are simultaneously evaluated (not to forget internal reflections, ghosting, etc).
Mechanics? I am hard pressed to imagine a more precise focusing mechanism and I've used lots of measuring instruments in standards-calibrated scientific and industrial labs. In fact, taking into account the distance the objective lenses travel to go from a close focus of 50cm to 'infinity' (read focus on a star) all the while maintaining a constant displacement of the right and left optical centers of their individual focal planes combined with simultaneous and precise rotations around this center to give stereo 2-eyed vision at unthought of close distances - well, whatever advances material scientists have made to make this possible is beyond my circle of knowledge, but not beyond my ability to appreciate a job superbly done (these are by necessity internal focus mechanisms so there are no exposed mechanical arms or levers to get misaligned).
This leaves an AFOV of 60, to take your acceptable low limit. The Papilio II 6.5x21 are at a 7.5º FOV while you're asking for 8º.
Half a degree off, so maybe not an instant buy, but surely a pondered knowledge-based informed buying purchase it be 😊!!!.
 
I'll begin by taking the liberty to define Alpha binos in a matter-of-fact physics sense: stay away from roof prisms.
Next item, magnesium body is to keep weight low - these are already low weight so no need to use exotic materials.
As for lenses and coatings the Papilio II are already at or exceed roof prism alpha binos in transmission values when color, resolution and contrast are simultaneously evaluated (not to forget internal reflections, ghosting, etc).
Mechanics? I am hard pressed to imagine a more precise focusing mechanism and I've used lots of measuring instruments in standards-calibrated scientific and industrial labs. In fact, taking into account the distance the objective lenses travel to go from a close focus of 50cm to 'infinity' (read focus on a star) all the while maintaining a constant displacement of the right and left optical centers of their individual focal planes combined with simultaneous and precise rotations around this center to give stereo 2-eyed vision at unthought of close distances - well, whatever advances material scientists have made to make this possible is beyond my circle of knowledge, but not beyond my ability to appreciate a job superbly done (these are by necessity internal focus mechanisms so there are no exposed mechanical arms or levers to get misaligned).
This leaves an AFOV of 60, to take your acceptable low limit. The Papilio II 6.5x21 are at a 7.5º FOV while you're asking for 8º.
Half a degree off, so maybe not an instant buy, but surely a pondered knowledge-based informed buying purchase it be 😊!!!.
One "secret" of the superbly efficient focusing system of the Papilio over its huge range is that it is variable-ratio, so that it maintains smooth yet snappy focus at close range but also can be adjusted with precision at settings near infinity. A superb bin (one of the best of all time in my opinion) which would very nice at any price, so esp. nice for the price that Pentax sets. Every naturalist should have one.

--AP
 
One "secret" of the superbly efficient focusing system of the Papilio over its huge range is that it is variable-ratio, so that it maintains smooth yet snappy focus at close range but also can be adjusted with precision at settings near infinity. A superb bin (one of the best of all time in my opinion) which would very nice at any price, so esp. nice for the price that Pentax sets. Every naturalist should have one.

--AP
Alexis, I totally agree that the Papilio excels as a naturalist’s tool.
I have the 8x pair and it shows things close in incredible detail, the Rock Honey Bees pollinating Jacquemontia, my River Shrimp picking at fish feed in a pond I have or the incredible detail on a diminutive flower of Cleome. At the same time, most of the time, it doubles well enough as birding bin to observe garden birds. When light is good, they show every detail on every feather - maybe as well as my Zeiss FLs. My bug is that it is plasticky and not sealed to the elements (ours is a dusty place). Small enough, light enough and priced very reasonably.

Arijit
 
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