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Uk400club 'list Of Lists' Etc Etc (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Johnny Allan
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Probably best to reject all records of PS not supported by a suite of images (in a range of different lighting conditions) and/or a specimen. Then start from scratch with better confidence limits...
http://www.birds.kz/Apus apus pekinensis/largee.html?1&1
Not half as good as this.
Don't we all wish we'd seen one of these! Much harder to string!
Z
Phil Carter
Well-known member
I'm just gutted that I'm not on the list. It's not great for the self-esteem:smoke:. As for Pallid Swifts, I saw the one(s) in Cromer a few years back and if anybody's ticked them, I hope they can sleep at night.
PhiP
PhiP
Steve Webb
Well-known member
In Birdwatch Nov. 2001 Lee said of 8,640 keen birders they are "all on my computer – everyone who’s recognised as some form of interested birder is on there.” Lee claims this to be the “the most accurate one (databases) of its kind.”
I wonder how many extra birders have been added to his database in the last 10 years and how accurate it really is.
Note the following was sent out by Lee to his UK400 email group (on Thursday, 23 June, 2011, 13:51):
“For the first time in over 15 years, I placed a copy of the UK400 Club Life
List rankings into the public domain last Wednesday. This has subsequently
caused a storm with some individuals shouting loudly for their names to be
removed from the tabulation, particularly those that differ in their views
of the total number of birds seen.
The reason I placed the list into the public domain was that so many of you
could then email me with your corrected totals, as it is nigh on impossible for me to get all 1,000 list figures correct (many are guesstimated). Up until 1300 hours today, 108 of you have written with updated/corrected figures.”
I wonder how many extra birders have been added to his database in the last 10 years and how accurate it really is.
Note the following was sent out by Lee to his UK400 email group (on Thursday, 23 June, 2011, 13:51):
“For the first time in over 15 years, I placed a copy of the UK400 Club Life
List rankings into the public domain last Wednesday. This has subsequently
caused a storm with some individuals shouting loudly for their names to be
removed from the tabulation, particularly those that differ in their views
of the total number of birds seen.
The reason I placed the list into the public domain was that so many of you
could then email me with your corrected totals, as it is nigh on impossible for me to get all 1,000 list figures correct (many are guesstimated). Up until 1300 hours today, 108 of you have written with updated/corrected figures.”
Phil Andrews
It's only Rock and Roller but I like it
Hi Garry - probably depends on the definition of "Top Lister" (thats probably worth a thread in itself!
); I could imagine most of the Top 50 in the UK400 list do Ireland; not sure about say the Top 500.Phil
Jane Turner
Well-known member
Quite correct, clearly I made a bigger impression on you than you did on me. Sounds like you were attention seeking. Plumage Miss-ID too, I went on my bike before and after school every day that bird was there.
I do however remember you doing your level best to spill my pint in the Crown and Anchor a few years later - perhaps my Ale is more important to me than people falling over me "accidentally on purpose".
Richard Klim
-------------------------
Pallid Swift
Maybe Pallid and Common Swifts should just be lumped anyway...
Maybe Pallid and Common Swifts should just be lumped anyway...
Päckert, Feigl, Wink & Tietze. Molecular phylogeny and historical biogeography of swifts (Apodidae: Apus, Tachymarptis). 5th IBS Conference, Irakleion, Crete, Jan 2011.
We present a near complete swift phylogeny for two closely related genera Apus and Tachymarptis based on mitochondrial and nuclear markers. Each of the two genera represents a monophyletic clade, i.e. neither of the two Tachymarptis species is nested in Apus as previously considered. Genus Apus comprises four major clades two of which comprise both Palearctic and Afrotropic species. One exclusively Asian clade represents a basal split from the Apus tree; its phylogeographic structure contradicts current systematics of Himalayan and Southeast Asian species. A large second clade comprises all European species together with those of the Macaronesian islands and four further Afrotropical species. Branch lengths are considerably short and two terminal taxa (A. apus and A. pallidus) cannot be reliably distinguished by any of the genetic markers used. Internal topology of the Apus tree suggests multiple events of faunal interchange between the Palearctic and the Afrotropics during a considerably short evolutionary time frame. Discussion of historical biogeography is based on ancestral range reconstructions and molecular dating.
We present a near complete swift phylogeny for two closely related genera Apus and Tachymarptis based on mitochondrial and nuclear markers. Each of the two genera represents a monophyletic clade, i.e. neither of the two Tachymarptis species is nested in Apus as previously considered. Genus Apus comprises four major clades two of which comprise both Palearctic and Afrotropic species. One exclusively Asian clade represents a basal split from the Apus tree; its phylogeographic structure contradicts current systematics of Himalayan and Southeast Asian species. A large second clade comprises all European species together with those of the Macaronesian islands and four further Afrotropical species. Branch lengths are considerably short and two terminal taxa (A. apus and A. pallidus) cannot be reliably distinguished by any of the genetic markers used. Internal topology of the Apus tree suggests multiple events of faunal interchange between the Palearctic and the Afrotropics during a considerably short evolutionary time frame. Discussion of historical biogeography is based on ancestral range reconstructions and molecular dating.
jalethbridge
I like sea-watching
Richard,
This thread is for arguing with Lee Evans and attempting to discredit him. Please don't spoil it by posting taxonomic information, it really lowers the tone.
Thanks
Jonathan
This thread is for arguing with Lee Evans and attempting to discredit him. Please don't spoil it by posting taxonomic information, it really lowers the tone.
Thanks
Jonathan
Richard Klim
-------------------------
Jonathan, apologies for any offence caused. :-O
Jane Turner
Well-known member
Maybe Pallid and Common Swifts should just be lumped anyway...
Thanks Richard. There are quite a few examples where the physical divergence of proposed taxa run way ahead of the genetic divergence.
I assume that Stodmarsh bird had the structural differences that Pallid shows. I still find the pair almost impossible on plumage in many circumstances and only after I have a bird shaped like and flying like a Pallid would I look that hard at the plumage.
There is of course no reason why a vagrant Pallid couldn't be slightly leucistic and perhaps it was always going to take a bird that stood out from the crowd to be initially picked up and scutinised.
O.Reville1989
I started off with nothing and I've still got some
Really does seem all that people live for! Haven't they got birding to do?
I don't honestly see the big deal with peoples lists being published (estimated or otherwise), so many stats in life are estimates.
And bringing up all this Pallid swift stuff? why? how is it relevant? or is it just another excuse to rip into Lee Evans?
Really does seem rather pathetic that this is still carrying on!
And before anyone claims I'm "up Lee's backside", I've never even met him! I've seen him twice in the flesh. None of my opinions are backing Lee or attacking him, they are my opinions on the situation and my beliefs.
chowchilla
Well-known member
I don't miss the UK birding scene one iota plus I don't know any other Pommy expat birders who feel differently.
The reasons being all too evident in the somewhat sillier parts of this thread.
The reasons being all too evident in the somewhat sillier parts of this thread.
O.Reville1989
I started off with nothing and I've still got some
Agreed! What is Aus birding like? Obviously get a vast array of species but is there the birding network there is over here? Is it a territory wide network?
Cheers
chowchilla
Well-known member
Needless to say, coverage on the ground is distinctly thinner; for example, an Eye-browed Thrush (a first for Aus) turned up on someone's land near Malanda earlier this year, and I can vouchsafe that anyone who'd've gone to see it would most likely have had it to themselves.
There isn't the obsessive element of pager-toting twitchers that there is the UK (and I'm not anti-twitching btw, just the nastier more competitive elements of it); but what there is, is a friendly 'community' of birders which includes experts and beginners respecting each others position and helping each other out. Some keen but inexperienced local birders here in and around Cairns have made some very good finds of late, such as the Slaty-backed Gull that rocked up in Cooktown a couple of seasons back.
We don't really have the 'vast array' of species that you describe (in fact, the wonder is, is that there aren't more species to be found here), but it's still pretty decent! The diversity on pelagics would blow your socks off!
Generally, birding networks are State-based, but with the net, national birding news does get around. But bear in mind that twitching a Blue and White Flycatcher that's turned up in Broome if you live in Melbourne involves a five hour flight and a road journey at the other end. You need time and money to do that sort of thing, for which I refer you to Melbourne native Sean Dooley's rather excellent book, "The Big Twitch".
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Mike Montier
Well-known member
Nothing better on a Sunday morning than to read threads like this one. I have left the UK and really miss the twitching scene, it was full of characters who were amusing and who had many wonderful stories to tell about their exploits. Lee once spent ages with me showing me subtle plumage differences of autumn Garden warblers and he didn't even know me. They were great days but all this other stuff is just too much and it gets a bit depressing when all the mud starts flying. Ah well, I'm off birding now, just me, my notebook and the birds.
chowchilla
Well-known member
Do you not have a local birding community where you live? There's a great little set up here in Cairns and some real characters who will take the time to explain the finer aspects of ID as you describe.
I loved Spain when I was there; some fine birding and a wonderful country.
gareth_blockley
Smile people
Come on, this is getting way off topic now. Where are the mods when you need them?!
As entertaining as this is - bird watching/twitching soap opera that it is. It really has confirmed some of my own feelings and thoughts about twitching. I started seriously birding 5/6 years ago now and my learning curve was steep and it is still rellatively steep. During that time I read about twitching rare birds and huge lists and really envied these people and thought that is where I want to be. I quickly realised no that's not for me - mainly I can't afford it. I'm not totally against twitching - I'll happily go out of my way to see something new or interesting that I can learn from. I do say haowever I definately do not want to become a competative twitcher, especially after reading all of this.
Out of interest - can anyone send out the 'list of lists'? The link doesn't seem to work now. I know for sure that I wont be on it. Lee has probably never even heard of me, but I'd be interested in having a look - correct or wrong!
Gareth
As entertaining as this is - bird watching/twitching soap opera that it is. It really has confirmed some of my own feelings and thoughts about twitching. I started seriously birding 5/6 years ago now and my learning curve was steep and it is still rellatively steep. During that time I read about twitching rare birds and huge lists and really envied these people and thought that is where I want to be. I quickly realised no that's not for me - mainly I can't afford it. I'm not totally against twitching - I'll happily go out of my way to see something new or interesting that I can learn from. I do say haowever I definately do not want to become a competative twitcher, especially after reading all of this.
Out of interest - can anyone send out the 'list of lists'? The link doesn't seem to work now. I know for sure that I wont be on it. Lee has probably never even heard of me, but I'd be interested in having a look - correct or wrong!
Gareth
TwoDipsfromAmsterdam
Anything About?
Couldn't have put it better. Just come back from birding - me, notebook, bins, telescope and bike. A quiet morning on the local patch; just a Marsh Harrier, 21 Spoonbills and a ton of Avocets. Not even any other birders (and this is the Netherlands). No sign of Pallid Swift, thank God.
David
chowchilla
Well-known member
@ Gareth: How is what I said 'off topic?'
I made a point entirely pertient to the thread and then simply replied to a question I was asked about Aussie birding, to which I (sticking to topic) pointed out how twitching works (or doesn't) here in Aus.
I made a single post prior to yours that was a bit off topic, that's all...
Like I said, I don't miss the UK birding scene one bit.
I made a point entirely pertient to the thread and then simply replied to a question I was asked about Aussie birding, to which I (sticking to topic) pointed out how twitching works (or doesn't) here in Aus.
I made a single post prior to yours that was a bit off topic, that's all...
Like I said, I don't miss the UK birding scene one bit.
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