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american crow or raven? (1 Viewer)

Bubo

Bubo

Registered Birder
even w/ field guides i am not entirely sure. they're big birds, but still...

Second two photos are same bird, eastern Sierra mountains (8,000ft), California

First photo is in Orange County, California.

I'm just not sure if they are crow or raven, leaning towards raven for all...?

Any assistance one how one may tell the difference is greatly appreciated.

Thank you.
 

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COmmon Raven (Note bill shape)

A common raven is almost twice the size of an American Crow (24" vs. 12.5")

And there's more of a feather coverage over the base of the bill.

Gthang
 
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Yes, they are Common Ravens. Others already pointed to some of the differences. Another way to tell them apart (works better in flight but you can still see it in the first picture) is the shape of the tail. The raven has a wedge-shaped tail and the tail is also rounded, while the crow has a straight tail.
 
Bubo Even though crows can be raven sized I see them as a much finer featured bird especially a more slender bill Your boys are heavy of bill.These fellows definatly play ball for Baltimore.
Bitter in Cleveland.
Sam
 
I would like to add, however, that size cannot be used to distinguish these two spp as you can have smallish ravens and large-ish crows. (Note to Gthang: American crows aren't 12 1/2", they're 17-18".)
This also seems to vary a bit regionally: In California, the crows are more likely to be noticeably smaller, but in Arizona, they aren't. They also can mimic each other's calls so even that isn't always reliable.

Bill size/shape and tail shape are the only foolproof field marks. IMHO, of course. :)
 
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Agree with Katy, here in NJ our crows are 18", ravens 22-24".
Massive bill, shaggy throat, wedge shape tail = Raven
 
I always go on general jizz that a crow looks "Big" but a raven looks "massive" in features. Even when they appear to be similar sized the raven will always appear to be more bulky and "massive".
 
To me they are Raven, Corvus corax.

In Europe a good indicator beside the bill shape on a close up-photo of the head of Raven or Carrion crow are also the throat feathers; narrow, pointed ends in Raven; rounded in Carrion crow
-But I don´t know if that also applies to the american crow species.

h, from the texts above it seems it probably does; and general ID features have all been mentioned-should read more slowly...
 
Katy Penland said:
....In California, the crows are more likely to be noticeably smaller, but in Arizona, they aren't....
Click to expand...

Hi Katy, In Arizona you also get the Chihuahuan Raven Corvus cryptoleucus formerly called the American White-necked Raven which is about the size of the European Carrion Crow, though with heavier bill.
 
steve_nova said:
Hi Katy, In Arizona you also get the Chihuahuan Raven Corvus cryptoleucus formerly called the American White-necked Raven which is about the size of the European Carrion Crow, though with heavier bill.
Click to expand...

You're right. Just saw my first Chihuahuans a year ago January, south of Tucson (near the Mexican border). While they're a bit smaller than common, their bill also looks disproportionately shorter (but not less massive) than common raven due to feather bristles that cover almost half the length of the upper mandible. I got some long, good looks at a few on the ground near our car but never saw the white bases to the neck feathers, darn! They also have a really strange, high call, completely unlike anything I've heard from Am. crow or common raven.

Interesting genus. I never tire of watching corvids in action.
 
Hi Bubo, I have done quite a bit of work on this page Genus Corvus recently and if you go down to the North American species, I have also added some good image links to the relevant species too. :t:
 
As a follow up, perhaps to Katy or Screech or others who are familiar with comparing the two (Crow and Raven):

We saw quite a few large, black corvids last weekend (in Fountain Hills, which Katy might be familiar with), that I naturally assumed were Ravens (crows are scarce in the Phoenix metro area), so I didn't observe them all that closely. In hindsight though, I recall that these birds seemed a bit smaller than our normal massive Common Ravens. Besides, it was their flight style that made me think about it aftwards. They were flying low and fast and darting about through people's yards, not flying slow and lazily overhead like our Common Ravens usually do. There isn't much about corvids that would surprise me any more, but these birds seemed almost too agile and quick for the big beasties.

Thoughts?
 
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