Is This A Purple Finch? (1 Viewer)

Tammie · May 22, 2004

Hi Forum,

I just found out tonight that I got a photo of this bird the other day at my feeders. He was hanging out with all the purple finches but this one is obviously more orange. I don't think he's a crossbill... he's too finch-like. Could he be a purple finch with messed up pigmentation? I know it's not the best quality shot but like I said, I didn't even know I had this much!
Any ideas??

Rasmus Boegh · May 22, 2004

The short answer to the name of this thread is "yes"!

The pale colouration indicates that it is leucistic.

What a pleasure it must be with such a flock visiting your garden...

KC Foggin · May 22, 2004

Which brings me to another question. I know in House Finches there are variations in coloring due to diet. Is this seen in the Purple Finch also?

Tammie · May 22, 2004

KCFoggin said:
Which brings me to another question. I know in House Finches there are variations in coloring due to diet. Is this seen in the Purple Finch also?

KC, I have NEVER seen this in purple finches before. A definite first for me! Purples are usually pretty strong in their red coloration for the males and brown and white streaking for the females. I'm so excited about this one! I hope it returns... I only saw it the one day and didn't even realize I got the photo of it until last night.

Rasmus Boegh · May 22, 2004

KCFoggin said:
Which brings me to another question. I know in House Finches there are variations in coloring due to diet. Is this seen in the Purple Finch also?

Yes, but only to a very limited degree in healthy individuals. If they are given the wrong food in captivity they may lose a fair amount of their colour, but still far from as extensively as the individual on the photo.

Tammie · May 22, 2004

Rasmus Boegh said:
Yes, but only to a very limited degree in healthy individuals. If they are given the wrong food in captivity they may lose a fair amount of their colour, but still far from as extensively as the individual on the photo.

Thanks so much for your comments, Rasmus. I'm patiently waiting but this special little bird hasn't made a repeat appearance yet.

snowyowl · May 23, 2004

Neat bird, Tammie.
I've read a number of reports of leucistic birds showing up this year (locally here).

Tammie · May 24, 2004

snowyowl said:
Neat bird, Tammie.
I've read a number of reports of leucistic birds showing up this year (locally here).

Hi Dan,
This is my second leucistic bird in less than a year. I had my cute little 3/4 white common redpoll all winter and he was truly entertaining. One of the cutest little birds I've seen! Now, to have this leucistic purple finch is really cool. I sure hope he returns!

oldsquaw · May 24, 2004

After looking at your bird, I'm thinking House Finch. I've never seen either Purple or Cassin's with this coloration. Houses can be from bright yellow, orange, red to pink. I always thought it was genetic since food doesn't change here in Colorado. When I was an active bander, I banded well over 5,000 house finches. The orangish color like the one in your photo, represented approx. 10% of the population with bright red being probably 70+%. Yellow would be in the under 5%. Also, I'm wondering what foods (i.e. seeds, mulberries, other fruits) would cause coloration changes? Or would it be minerals, something like shellfish and roseate spoonbill, Ross' Gull - pinks... Just some thoughts... Van

Bluetail · May 24, 2004

House Finch would be streaked on rear flanks, belly and vent.

tony.hetheringt · May 24, 2004

Tammie said:
Hi Dan,
This is my second leucistic bird in less than a year. I had my cute little 3/4 white common redpoll all winter and he was truly entertaining. One of the cutest little birds I've seen! Now, to have this leucistic purple finch is really cool. I sure hope he returns!

Hi Tammie,
I'm a bit suprised noone has picked up on your redpoll yet. I presume your (Transatlantic) common redpoll is the same as ours, we have quite a debate going on over here as to whether Mealy redpoll which is a lighter plumaged bird is the same as the common redpoll (carduelis flammea). Also in my bird identification guide we occasionally get the Arctic redpoll (carduelis hornemanni) which is lighter still and does live in your neck of the woods.
Regards Tony

Bluetail · May 24, 2004

Nope - must admit I can't see a Redpoll. Where is it?

Rasmus Boegh · May 24, 2004

tony.hetheringt said:
Hi Tammie,
I'm a bit suprised noone has picked up on your redpoll yet. I presume your (Transatlantic) common redpoll is the same as ours, we have quite a debate going on over here as to whether Mealy redpoll which is a lighter plumaged bird is the same as the common redpoll (carduelis flammea). Also in my bird identification guide we occasionally get the Arctic redpoll (carduelis hornemanni) which is lighter still and does live in your neck of the woods.
Regards Tony

There are many clues why it isn't a Redpoll, neither Common or Arctic. Where are the streaks on the mantle? Where is the red cap? The head is all red (not just the cap)... Finally, bill is to heavy.

Jason (aka Bluetail) already gave a few good points in thread #10 why it isn't a House Finch.

No doubt, Purple...

snowyowl · May 24, 2004

tony.hetheringt said:
Hi Tammie,
I'm a bit suprised noone has picked up on your redpoll yet. I presume your (Transatlantic) common redpoll is the same as ours, we have quite a debate going on over here as to whether Mealy redpoll which is a lighter plumaged bird is the same as the common redpoll (carduelis flammea). Also in my bird identification guide we occasionally get the Arctic redpoll (carduelis hornemanni) which is lighter still and does live in your neck of the woods.
Regards Tony

What you call an Artic Redpoll is what we call a Hoary Redpoll.

Hal · May 25, 2004

Don't think Tammie's 3/4 white Redpoll was in reference to this thread! While it may have been a leucistic Redpoll (aka Common) "Carduelis f.flammea", it is more likely it was a Hoary (aka Arctic) Redpoll "C.h.hornemanni". I've seen many that showed almost no body streaking, no red or pink anywhere, gray cap, with pale gray wings and tail.

The Redpoll debate is becoming very interesting as of late. It appears that the "C.h. hornemanni" breeding in W. greenland and the E. Canadian Arctic Islands is on average a lot bigger than those found in Europe & N. Asia. I'm talking about my being able to pick them out of a flock using size alone! The race of Hoary "C.h.exilipes" breeding in N. Quebec & N. mainland Canada is almost identical in size to "C.f. flammea", although it is much paler with a shorter, more obtuse bill. There are at least 9, possibly more races of the two Redpoll species across the N hemisphere. I'm thinking we'll will have to wait until all the Genetic testing has been completed before it's all straightened out.

That said! Tammie should be seeing a few "Hoary's" every winter in her location. Was there a photo taken of that 3/4 white bird?

Hal

Rasmus Boegh · May 25, 2004

Hal said:
Don't think Tammie's 3/4 white Redpoll was in reference to this thread! While it may have been a leucistic Redpoll (aka Common) "Carduelis f.flammea", it is more likely it was a Hoary (aka Arctic) Redpoll "C.h.hornemanni". I've seen many that showed almost no body streaking, no red or pink anywhere, gray cap, with pale gray wings and tail.

The Redpoll debate is becoming very interesting as of late. It appears that the "C.h. hornemanni" breeding in W. greenland and the E. Canadian Arctic Islands is on average a lot bigger than those found in Europe & N. Asia. I'm talking about my being able to pick them out of a flock using size alone! The race of Hoary "C.h.exilipes" breeding in N. Quebec & N. mainland Canada is almost identical in size to "C.f. flammea", although it is much paler with a shorter, more obtuse bill. There are at least 9, possibly more races of the two Redpoll species across the N hemisphere. I'm thinking we'll will have to wait until all the Genetic testing has been completed before it's all straightened out.

I have seen literally thousands of redpols, loads of Artic & Common. Both in Europe, Asia and the Americas. I have *never* seen any looking anything like this. I would really like to know how redpol fits with the red hood? Similarly, I have seen the ssp.'s mentioned above, and even though they may appear to have a heavier bill than "normal", they are still behind the bird on the photo. Regarding the possible splitting in this group; I know that currently a group is trying to get sufficient blood/tissue samples with wellknown origins, to do genetic testing. Anyway, with such widespread species, it is likely that (at least) most are in the same species as there appaear to be significant geneflow between most populations. Back to the original question:
Purple Finch, no doubt...

tony.hetheringt · May 25, 2004

Hi Rasmus,
The redpoll link from Tammie and myself was a reference she made about another "leucistic" bird which has used her feeding station.
I bow to your authority on the purple finch as I had never heard of one before finding this great forum.
Regards Tony

Bluetail · May 25, 2004

Ah yes - silly of me to have forgotten that. I really am getting senile!

Hal · May 25, 2004

Thanks for the explanation Tony! I also think the bird is absolutely, positively most definitely a Purple Finch.

Rasmus, all I wanted to know was if Tammie managed to get a photo of the "Leucistic Redpoll" she mentioned in her above post #8. Sorry if I confused the issue.

Hal

Rasmus Boegh · May 25, 2004

Hal said:
Thanks for the explanation Tony! I also think the bird is absolutely, positively most definitely a Purple Finch.

Rasmus, all I wanted to know was if Tammie managed to get a photo of the "Leucistic Redpoll" she mentioned in her above post #8. Sorry if I confused the issue.

Hal

Oops! Didn't know that!

Is This A Purple Finch? (1 Viewer)

Well-known member

Attachments

BF member

Very, very long time member

Well-known member

BF member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Old Tooter

Senior Moment

Well-known member

Senior Moment

BF member

Well-known member

Gashawk

BF member

Well-known member

Senior Moment

Gashawk

BF member

Similar threads

Users who are viewing this thread