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UK's worst place for killing BoP (2 Viewers)

Robin Edwards

Well-known member
Article on page 29 of today's Independant.

"Police blame rogue gamekeepers for poisoning or shooting protected predators" by Sarah Morrison

The worse "Black Spot" is named and shamed as North Yorkshire
 
i wonder if it would still be top if it were worked out at incident density rather than just the pure number of incidents, north yorkshire is a big place.

but with two significant areas of upland and no breeding Hen Harriers plus limited Ravens and definite incidents its no great surprise...
 
I'd say Bowland being next door would probs be second on the list in terms of the sheer history of raptor persecution that has gone on there but it does seem that Devon is quickly gaining notoriety, especially after the death of that magnificent Red Deer stag (Conservation forum if no-one's seen it).
 
I'd say Bowland being next door would probs be second on the list in terms of the sheer history of raptor persecution that has gone on there but it does seem that Devon is quickly gaining notoriety, especially after the death of that magnificent Red Deer stag (Conservation forum if no-one's seen it).

making a claim for bowland to be the second, when it still has species which have been persecuted out of existance everywhere else is a bit of a falacy.

how would you compare that with an area which has no hen harriers apart from one destroyed breeding attempt where both parent birds were killed and the eggs smashed.
 
making a claim for bowland to be the second, when it still has species which have been persecuted out of existance everywhere else is a bit of a falacy.

how would you compare that with an area which has no hen harriers apart from one destroyed breeding attempt where both parent birds were killed and the eggs smashed.

I agree. There are vast tracts of upland Northumberland, Yorkshire, Derbyshire and parts of Cumbria where you simply will not see large raptors. This isn't true of Bowland. Besides nesting hen harriers (and in some years it's the only place in England they nest) there are goshawks, peregrines, buzzards, even eagle owls, besides smaller raptors like spars, kestrels and merlins which - generally - aren't persecuted on grouse moors. Add to this barn, tawny, long-eared, short-eared and little owl and it's not looking so bad for birds of prey.

I'm not quite sure what the death of a red deer stag in Devon has to do with raptor persecution either? It's unfortunate death had nothing to do with raptors or shooting estates.

Cheers
Jonathan
 
I'm not quite sure what the death of a red deer stag in Devon has to do with raptor persecution either? It's unfortunate death had nothing to do with raptors or shooting estates.

Cheers
Jonathan

Pleased somone else noticed the total irrelevance of that.
 
I agree. There are vast tracts of upland Northumberland, Yorkshire, Derbyshire and parts of Cumbria where you simply will not see large raptors. This isn't true of Bowland. Besides nesting hen harriers (and in some years it's the only place in England they nest) there are goshawks, peregrines, buzzards, even eagle owls, besides smaller raptors like spars, kestrels and merlins which - generally - aren't persecuted on grouse moors. Add to this barn, tawny, long-eared, short-eared and little owl and it's not looking so bad for birds of prey.

I'm not quite sure what the death of a red deer stag in Devon has to do with raptor persecution either? It's unfortunate death had nothing to do with raptors or shooting estates.

Cheers
Jonathan

Illegal killing of wildlife perhaps? Whether it has feathers, hooves or whatever it is against the law to kill our national wildlife indiscriminately and these unsavoury characters invariably involve the illegal side of the shooting fraternity so I bet they have a good idea who is responsible for the various activities that take place around them.
 
Illegal killing of wildlife perhaps? Whether it has feathers, hooves or whatever it is against the law to kill our national wildlife indiscriminately and these unsavoury characters invariably involve the illegal side of the shooting fraternity so I bet they have a good idea who is responsible for the various activities that take place around them.

Those who poach deer are rarely legitimate members of the 'shooting fraternity'. In fact it is almost always sporting estates who do their uttmost to apprehend such unsavoury characters, then make sure they're prosecuted. If you care to do a little research on poaching in the UK over the last couple of hundred years you will realise this is the case.

Cheers
Jonathan
 
As Saluki quite rightly points out poachers and the 'shooting fraternity' are most certainly not one and the same infact they are most likely sworn enemies.

In my experinence i'd happily say that shooters and birders get along better than shooters and poachers.
 
so back to BoP.... as per the orginal report, Police blame rogue gamekeepers for poisoning or shooting protected predators.

Not sure whether a rogue gamekeeper can be labelled as a poacher, a shooter or possibly either or neither? Or perhpas just not a relevant comparison to make reference this report.
 
As Saluki quite rightly points out poachers and the 'shooting fraternity' are most certainly not one and the same infact they are most likely sworn enemies.

In my experinence i'd happily say that shooters and birders get along better than shooters and poachers.

If the shooters shot poachers instead of birds I think everyone would get along.
 
iirc the moors on the Forest of Bowland essentially belong to 3 landowners. NW Water and the Duke of Westminster being two of them. I forget the third. If memory serves, 6 out of the 7 pairs bred on the utility land. Hmm...

On the other hand I'd rather not be a Red Kite on the Black Isle
 
Those who poach deer are rarely legitimate members of the 'shooting fraternity'. In fact it is almost always sporting estates who do their uttmost to apprehend such unsavoury characters, then make sure they're prosecuted. If you care to do a little research on poaching in the UK over the last couple of hundred years you will realise this is the case.

Cheers
Jonathan

That's sort of what I meant by the illegal side of the shooting fraternity, probably didn't put it very well. I'm referring to those whose activities go against the grain of the majority of folk who are shooters and are pro-wildlife and conservation, if that describes it any better. And my other suggestion was that maybe they might have an idea which estates are managed by these 'rogue' gamekeepers neither of whom have an ounce of respect for wildlife especially that which they think they can kill and get away with it. Because BOP persecution and the poaching of that stag both are examples of wildlife crime and happened in Devon is why I mentioned it as an as well.

Poachers and rogue gamekeepers both get tarred with the same brush by me and who's to say a rogue gamekeeper may not also be a poacher too. He might well have access to a high-powered rifle and caring about only money and not a thought for the welfare of any animal save himself he may well see the chance to bag himself a nice 'bonus' here and there. Just a thought, nothing more.

I do see your point though that poachers probably won't be picky about what it is they poach and will most likely poach Grouse and other game on shooting estates which would make them natural enemies of most gamekeepers (except maybe those with whom they have an 'understanding' which again follows along the lines of my own little conspiracy theory).

Aside from all that though I had forgotten, as northernloon has reminded me, that UU own a large portion of the land up there and that most of the breeding raptors find respite there.

Just to lighten the mood though I've had some great views of a male Hen Harrier these last couple of days.
 
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