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Buying assistance: Nikon Premier 10x42, Swarovision 10x42, or Minox HG 10x52 (1 Viewer)

sbpeugh

Guest
Howdy Howdy folks!

So, I am fixing to buy binoculars of a lifetime. Well, maybe not for a lifetime, but at least for the next few years until I get a job as an engineer and start making some real cash.

As a rightful engineer consumer does, I have spent several hours reading, researching, and comparing specs between almost all of the higher quality binocular brands. Also, I have stuck my face to as many pairs as I can just to get a feel for the differences in optical quality, how much more light a 56mm objective lens gathers than a 42 or 32, and what a 15mm eye relief is to a 20mm eye relief.

Here are my basic requirements and use: I'm an outdoorsman of all trades, rugged on all of my gear, and enjoy climbing whatever I see to have the satisfaction of summiting. I ride a motorcycle so the binoculars will be transported in my hard case, experience high vibration for hours at a time. I wear glasses, so eye relief is critical. Typical use cases for the binoculars will be long distance glassing, across ranges, in valleys, from valleys to summits, hunting, city spotting, and some astronomy.

I am looking for something absolutely stellar, at a students price. I am looking up into the $1400 range, not sure I want to make the jump for the Swarovision.

Wish my glasses, I have noticed that binoculars with less than 17mm of eye relief just don't cut it, I must move my face around the eye piece to see the boundaries of the image through the binoculars. I have also noticed that between the same model of binoculars, the 8 power do about the same thing; albeit greater eye relief, I still must fish around the eyepiece to see the entire image. The 10 power, with a smaller field of view and less eye relief (typically) I can stick up to my face, fill my FOV with the image through the binocular, and be quite satisfied with the picture.

So, I have basically narrowed my selection down to 3 pairs, the Nikon Premier 10x42, Swarovision 10x42, and the Minox HG 10x52. I have looked through all but the latter, and that is what I'm hoping for the most support. Both the Nikon and Swaro seem to have very good eye relief (18.5 and 20 respectively) adequate FOV, nice focus, and great crispness and clarity. Yes, I could tell the glass in the Swaros were just a smidge better, things were a bit more crisp and defined, but I don't think the difference was worth $1500. The close focus on the Nikon didn't compare to the Swaros, but if I'm needing binocs for something between 5-9feet, well, I'll squint with my bare eyes haha.

So, I am really leaning towards the Nikon Premier, getting 85% of the swarovision quality at less than half the cost. However, Minox makes these HG 10x52, which are the same weight as the former (28oz), 19.5mm eye relief, 306ft@1000yds, close distance at 11.5ft. But, I just can't find anyone here in southern Arizona who has a pair in stock to view them! HAS ANYONE USED THE MINOX HG 10X52 TO COMPARE?? They are priced between the Nikon and Swaro around $1500, but I just don't know how the optics in these things are. Specs are one thing, but optical quality is such a qualitative evaluation that can not be judged with numbers or papers.

So, If anyone could offer me advice if it's worth a few hundred dollar jump for another 10mm of objective that offers similar or better quality than the Nikon Premier, please chime in.

I am basically looking for something with >18mm eye relief, 10 power, <30Oz, hella good quality, bomb proof "drop and replace" warranty policy, that is nice to use. I am very very impressed with the new ELs, I think the Premiers will suffice JUST FINE (I think if someone blindly gave me the Nikons and ELs in focus, I could not tell a difference) but would like opinions on the 10x52HG.

Cheers and thanks
 
Welcome to Birdforum! The Nikon has the No-fault warranty in the US. I have had the use of the older 8 and 10 x42 LX and just loved both of these except the weight. Swarovski has a great warranty. I own Nikon 8x32LX,Swarovski 8x30SLC neu, Nikon 12x50 SE and some others.

Some information and comparison of the Nikon LX series to the highly regarded Nikon SE series.
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbarch...,9,10&Number=322382&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=

Regards,Steve
 
Given the jobless economic recovery in the USA and the chances to "get a job as an engineer and start making some real cash" I see no harm in seeing what the future holds. In six months you may have to replace "engineer" and "real cash" with "Walmart greeter" and "food stamps" in the above statement!

Seriously, there are still lot's of bins <$500 to consider that will give you 99% the performance of the Nikon Premier. Heck maybe even 105%!

good luck,
Rick
 
Hi,
Your needs might be met by the Canon 10x42ISL, a fully waterproof armored image stabilized glass. It has superb optics and the IS feature lifts it into a different category from the conventional alternatives.
It sells for about $1200 at Amazon, B&H or Adorama. All offer pretty easy return if not satisfied.
There are much cheaper Canon IS binocs available as well, as a budget alternative.
 
Given the jobless economic recovery in the USA and the chances to "get a job as an engineer and start making some real cash" I see no harm in seeing what the future holds. In six months you may have to replace "engineer" and "real cash" with "Walmart greeter" and "food stamps" in the above statement!

Seriously, there are still lot's of bins <$500 to consider that will give you 99% the performance of the Nikon Premier. Heck maybe even 105%!

good luck,
Rick

Rick:

You are in Tokyo, give the guy a break, I guess you didn't know there are many engineer jobs available here in the good old USA.;)

The Nikon Premieres or LXL's are very good picks. Top quality optics and
well recommended.

Jerry
 
Why wait! Here is a Minox HG 10 x 52 for about $600.00. I doubt if it is as good as a Nikon. Their BD 10 x 32 BR model certainly is not nearly as good as my Nikon 10 x 32 LX L. I have both of them. But this one should


suit your purposes until you can afford more than a "student's price!" Try them out and see if you like them. Find out about Camera Land's return policy. It is a very reputable company.

http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/minox.pl?page=62161

Bob
 
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As my Aunt Minnie used to say, "Howdeeeeee!" Podner.

So a "students price" is $1400 these days? Well, if you are "in-state," University of Arizona tuition for resident undergraduates is only $5,933 per year (that's up $659 since last year, geez, I'm sounding like encyclopedic Kevin now :).

Sit down for this one. One year's tuition for Penn State, my fat alma mater, costs $24,626 per year IN-STATE! That's $4K more than out-of-state tuition at the UA!

No wonder you have money to spend with your low tuition! But not enough for a Swarovision 10x42 EL until Doug at Cameraland offers some demos at blow out price, which probably won't be for a year or two.

I personally prefer the image quality of the 10x42 Venturer LX to the Premier, but if I were climbing to the top of Humphreys Peak, I'd rather have the 8 oz. lighter Premier.

But note, both the Premier and Swarovsion have "rolling ball," which some people (me) find bothersome. Images appear to roll over a positively curved surface.

Sounds like you've already tried both (hopefully outdoors) and you're still interested so their "rolling ball" apparently gathers no moss for you.

If you can get past that, then you have made a very good choice with the Premier (the field flatteners are good for stargazing too, which you listed as one of your pursuits).

However, I have to say, especially with all that rigorous activity and thin air, you might have a hard time holding a 10x bin steady, even as good as the Premier's ergonomics are (even for the Big Handed) w/out some kind of support, and I don't know if you want to drag a monopod with you.

The 8x42 Premier is easier to hold steady and with only a 7* FOV (10x is 6*), I don't think you will have to "hunt" around for the image like you would in wider field bins.

The 8x42 also has larger 5.2mm exit pupil in case you get stranded and need to look for an Arizona Mountain Rescue helicopter in low light!

Plenty of ER on both for eyeglass wearers, and the Premier's construction is quite rugged. No electronics to fizzle out on you, and the 10x42 has a larger exit pupil than the Canon (4.2mm vs. the Canon's 3.7mm). Plus, the batteries would get eaten up like flies in the freezing cold temps of the mountaintops.

If I were mountain climbing, I'd probably buy a Premier 8x32 rather than a full sized bin since it's much more compact (also a bit lighter). I'm not crazy about the shallow depth of focus for medium range birding, but for long range, it works quite well, and you still get a respectable 4mm exit pupil. Or I might buy a Swaro 8x30 SLC if I could live with the pinky focuser.

Steve (mooreorless) owns both the 8x32 LX and Swaro 8x30, so he could advise you if you decided to go that route.

OTOH, Tokyo Rick might have some sagely advice about watching your budget. Even though he's from Japan, as an investment banker, he has his ear to the ground of the world economy.

As a regional business journalist, I have a more limited perspective, but for what it's worth, I'm writing about the business outlook for 2010 in our region, and the business owners I've talked with are "cautiously optimistic" (now where have I heard that phrase before?). I don't know if you plan to stay in Arizona, but the recovery will probably take longer in the "sand states" than the Mid-Atlantic where I am.

I wrote an article about engineering firms recently, and the environmental engineering and architectural engineering firms I spoke with involved in public projects were holding their own, not so with firms who had most of their eggs in the private sector basket, which has become an empty nest.

Now those private sector firms are bidding on public projects too, so it's making it harder for the smaller companies to win bids, because they don't have established relationships with government officials and they can't absorb costs as well as the larger fish.

A large contractor, which has its headquarters on the next block, laid off 300 workers last year. Thanks to the ARRA, they were able to hire most of the laid off employees back, but the CEO told me that unless there's a second stimulus package, most of those projects will be dried up by this summer, and he will have to start laying off again. No new projects, no new construction, no new engineering jobs.

I also know a woman who's husband graduated last fall from Penn State with a Masters in Civil Engineering, and he's working on a construction crew now "pourin' 'crete'" despite the fact that this one of the few areas in the state that has not stopped building throughout the recession because of the university. However, firms have their pick of the litter at the end of each academic year with new graduates so competition for engineering jobs is stiff.

So for now, you might want to consider an 8x42 or 10x42 Monarch III for $279 and put the rest in your piggy bank and save up for a Swaro (or EDG) after the economy has become "righteous" again and you become a rightful engineer. If they fall off the mountain, you're not out a quarter of a year's tuition!

Or you might want to make a compromise and buy a bin in the $500 range such one of the Chinese ED clones. Not sure how rugged they are, I just got mine (ZR 7x36 ED2), but they are the best "bang for the buck" out there.

Let us know how you make out, and remember to send us a post card from Mt. McKinley!
 
First and foremost, thanks everyone for your much valued and helpful opinions. After much contemplation, this is what I decided.

My eyes are not spoiled, this is my first pair of binoculars. That being said, the Swaros are something unnecessary and overkill for an untrained set of eyes like my own. Yes they are nice, but I can't appreciate everything they are - yet.

The Minox 10x52HG would be a killer binocular. However, they are in the package of a 50mm bodied frame, which makes them a bit large and bulky for something just to 'tag along' on a summit hike or all day adventure. Plus, the warranty isn't as bomb proof "drop and replace" as the others are acclaimed to be. Not to mention, they are yet an additional $600 above the Premiers offered by Eagle Optics at the moment.

Yes, this means I stuck with something that I remember really liking - Nikon's Premier (LXL) 10x42. They should be in Saturday, I'm quite anxious.

The next item I am looking to gather opinions for is a decent harness system. There seems to be about 10 or so out there, they all look the same, and not sure what is superior or if they are all the fairly equal. The only difference I can find between them is their method of attachment. The MyBinocularHarness (http://www.mybinocularharness.com/index.html) seems to attach with small key ring style metal circles. not a big fan of this, looks weak to be dangling optics from. The Bino/Cam harness from optechusa.com uses tie around male clips for attachment, which can be used for multiple item use.

Let me know how ya'll are hanging your optics.

Cheers, and thanks again
 
I have owned lots of Minox and one set of the 8x32 HG's. To me there are better optics than Minox. The first set of Minox I had was a early 8x32 which is the twin to the old Pentax WP and it was optically a twin and not bad but to me the newer (Higher priced) models aren't in the same league.

Of the three I like the Nikon!! I think also your missing the best deal out there in the $600 range. Leupold GR HD. Rugged and good optically. Best warranty and CS in the business.

Still the best "deal" are the ProMaster ELX ED from CameraLand or the Zen-Ray. These are "to me" optically and ergonomically comparable to any Alpha but the new Swarovision.

Dave
 
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Are you sure you want a 10x? Personally I lose detail because of the shake and usually you lose fov too. 6-7 or 8x is my choice for non IS.
 
First and foremost, thanks everyone for your much valued and helpful opinions. After much contemplation, this is what I decided.

My eyes are not spoiled, this is my first pair of binoculars. That being said, the Swaros are something unnecessary and overkill for an untrained set of eyes like my own. Yes they are nice, but I can't appreciate everything they are - yet.

The Minox 10x52HG would be a killer binocular. However, they are in the package of a 50mm bodied frame, which makes them a bit large and bulky for something just to 'tag along' on a summit hike or all day adventure. Plus, the warranty isn't as bomb proof "drop and replace" as the others are acclaimed to be. Not to mention, they are yet an additional $600 above the Premiers offered by Eagle Optics at the moment.

Yes, this means I stuck with something that I remember really liking - Nikon's Premier (LXL) 10x42. They should be in Saturday, I'm quite anxious.

The next item I am looking to gather opinions for is a decent harness system. There seems to be about 10 or so out there, they all look the same, and not sure what is superior or if they are all the fairly equal. The only difference I can find between them is their method of attachment. The MyBinocularHarness (http://www.mybinocularharness.com/index.html) seems to attach with small key ring style metal circles. not a big fan of this, looks weak to be dangling optics from. The Bino/Cam harness from optechusa.com uses tie around male clips for attachment, which can be used for multiple item use.

Let me know how ya'll are hanging your optics.

Cheers, and thanks again


sb:

Good to hear you made a decision on a quality optic. You will find on this Forum many opinions and ideas for helping you to spend your money. ;)

Now I will address your question on harnesses. There are many, and most are quite similar. In most sporting goods stores that cater to hunters, the Crooked Horn type is probably the most popular and several OEM's use these with their emblem placed on the leather patch.

They provide a zip tie that you attach the ring for hanging the harness on
with the quick klips. This kind of settup should work very well.
There are others, so check around.

Be sure to let us know how you like the Nikons.

Jerry
 
Those large Minox are a cheap for a reason, I'd stay away from them.

The Minox HG series have been revamped and are now made in Germany, making the remaining Japanese HG models remarkably good deals. Even scarcer but worth seeking out are the now discontinued Japan made aspheric BD models, also (especially the 8 x 32), in my view, very attractive buys. I agree that the earlier non-aspeheric Minox binoculars before Minox split off from Leica were just so-so, but the later versions are optically and ergonomically excellent.
 
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