Desert Whitethroat Pakistan? (1 Viewer)

A more knowledgeable person than I (which does not take much) has identified this as a Desert Whitethroat based on:-

Underparts white
Less contrasting head with mantle
Eye mark is also same in the other image (where back not visible)


I can also see it has a smallish bill and almost appears to have a short primary projection BUT given the quality of the photos can it be identified as a definite ?

got some more images......which look better

One more of the Whitethroat species....and a Paddyfield Warbler too?

The Acrocephalus foes look like a Paddyfield. Short pp making tail look long, distinct eyebrow etc. Can't really comment on the Lesser Whitethroats and not sure anyone can identify for certain unless they call

observer says call matches DW....

could this be a sociable plover?

I must admit I was hesitating to call the Whitethroat as I wasn't sure of the true coloration of the bird - some images showed washed-out, sandy-brown upperparts typical of halimodendri, the Central Asian form, whereas in others the upperparts look quite rich brown, especially on the nape and tertials, more like the Siberian form blythi. I'm not sure whether blythi reaches the subcontinent, and I haven't found much information on how to tell the two apart. As SJC said, the call is probably the best distinction is the call, but beware of assuming that a LW is Desert just because it churrs. There are some good recordings on XenoCanto.

I agree with Paddyfield Warbler.

Blythi, Minula, Althaea are the regular visitors. I think maybe best to leave the Whitethroat unassigned.

What about the Lapwing in post 5?

Himalaya said:

Blythi, Minula, Althaea are the regular visitors. I think maybe best to leave the Whitethroat unassigned.

What about the Lapwing in post 5?

Click to expand...

Looks like a White-tailed Lapwing on account of combination of leg/feet extension, black seemingly extending along tips of remiges and warm colouration to belly.

Grahame

Agree with Grahame re the Lapwing. I lightened the photo considerably and attached it, along with another flight shot of WTL for comparison. The warm buff coloration on the belly rules out Sociable. I'm left with this yellow splodge too, which I think must be the bird's yellow legs dangling - this would explain why they don't extend beyond the tail. The tail is pure white, as you can see.

Re the Whitethroat, it's not althaea, and I'm pretty sure it's not minula either. The range of minula has been found to be much more restricted than previously supposed, and is not thought to reach the Gulf. If you look at the map of breeding ranges on p.4, it looks as if in order to reach Pakistan, most birds in that range would have to cross the Himalayas, which seems unlikely to me. Far more likely that they're the same type (halimodendri) that reaches the Gulf. It's possible that blythi also reaches Pakistan, and intergrades may occur.

I looked at the legs and I did not think they could be trailing but the observer did flush it accidentally. I can totally agree with it being a WTL now..thanks!!

I have decided to advise the Whitethroat observer against labelling it a Desert Whitethroat BUT it would be his choice whether to accept this.

Thanks for the help so far. I have another bird which was labelled Desert Lesser Whitethroat as well - better quality photograph but I assuming with everything i have learnt so far this may now not be a DLW?

Both birds ARE probably "Desert Whitethroat", as in desert forms of Lesser Whitethroat. The whole situation has become horribly complicated. It used to be that the form of Lesser Whitethroat favouring arid habitat (usually small and short-winged with sandy-brown upperparts, pale grey head with a weak or almost non-existent mask and making tit-like churring calls) was automatically labelled minula, AKA Desert or Small Whitethroat. It was generally regarded as a separate species until recently. These birds are quite common in the UAE in winter, especially in mountain wadis. They often feed on or close to the ground and often cock their tails. At the same time there are birds which look slightly larger and longer-winged, frequent trees more and feed higher up, and appear almost intermediate in appearance.

However, in 2013, a study by Olsson et al found that the form minula had a more restricted breeding range than was previously thought, and given the distance involved, people started to think it was unlikely that this form could reach the Gulf. This study also found that on current evidence, no form of Lesser Whitethroat met the criteria for species status. A study by Votier last year found that birds tested in Oman and the UAE were actually the form halimodendri, usually regarded as a subspecies of curruca, or in one case blythi. Not long afterwards, the taxon Desert Whitethroat was removed from the Oman list, followed by the UAE list, and we now class these birds as halimodendri. HBW now lumps all forms of Lesser Whitethroat together, although it's possible that the complex could be separated into as many as six or more species in the future.

So what reaches Pakistan? If good numbers of halimodendri reach the Gulf, it's a good bet they reach Pakistan too. HBW does claim that minula reaches Pakistan too, a bit unlikely when you look at the geography, but I suppose it's possible. The question (probably academic) is how you would separate the two forms. I copy-pasted part of the relevant page from "Sylvia Warblers". However, look at how variable these birds can be on this page, e.g. the difference between the Sayq bird (classic DLW type) and the Dawkah and Hayma birds. If these birds are all halimodendri, what does minula look like?

http://www.birdsoman.com/Birds/136-Warblers/DesertWhitethroat/DesertWhitethroat.htm

It would be good if someone could do some DNA-testing on LWs in the subcontinent to see what is turning up. Here in the Gulf we hardly know what we are looking at any more - here are two pages of unidentified birds.

https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-WBXPQ/i-sDRH7Xv

Hi Andy

Thanks for all that information. What a complicated situation indeed. Having read more about it I am more confused than ever. However, keeping them as one species is better than the myriad of problems that could occur with splits.