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carnioli (1 Viewer)

Taphrospilus

Well-known member
As per day is the key a little bit confusing on carnioli (at least for me):

Original spelling of specific name Chalybura carmioli Lawrence, 1865 (= syn. Chalybura urochrysia melanorrhoa).

@ James: maybe a direct link to Julian Carmiol (born Julian Garnigohl Grasneck) (1807-1885) may not confuse the reader as it did to me. I assume according the code it is allowed to correct the name.

If we look at the OD we see that the name was dedicated to Julian Carniol. More on the story as well in The Eponym Dictionary of Birds

He was collector for the Smithsonian Institution.
 
Martin, you are right. Lawrence either misspelled, misheard or forgot how to spell Carmiol's name, so, under the current regulations, common sense goes out of the window and we must use carnioli. I will amend in due course.
 
Just spent yet another week (in frustration), for the third or fourth time, digging into the the two Carmiols, i.e. the Father (Julian/Julián/Julio/Julius) and the Son (Franz/Francisco) Carmiol ... a lot of various versions out there on Carmiol, as in originally; Carnigohl/Garnigohl/Karnigölch (with or without the Grasneck part)!
:scribe:
I'm well on my way (as much, or little, there is to find), closing in on "their" three birds ... but before "wrapping it up": Does anyone know where to find the paper below?

Carmiol Calvo, F. 1973. Apuntes para la biografía de don Julián Carmiol G. Revista de Agricultura (San José, Costa Rica) 45 (1-4): 33–38.

Grateful for any assistance!

Björn

PS. If not digitized, a library holding would do.
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Thanks for the suggestion, Martin, but before I contact them (maybe in vain) I would like to find a library that does claim they have the 1973 volume.

We´ll see what turns up!
 
Thanks to Martin I suddenly have the 1973 Paper Apuntes para la biografía de don Julián Carmiol G. ... by Francisco Carmiol Calvo.

One less to search for!

Björn

PS. Thanks again Martin! :t:
 
P.S. One again The Eponym Dictionary of Birds is wrong as in this article is written:

Don Julián Carmiol Grasneck nació en Berlin, Alemania, el 1o de enero de 1807. Casado en primeras con la señorita Augusta Prōessel, de este matrimonio hubo cuatro hijos: Julio (Julián hijo), Berta, Ana, y Francisco, todas nacidos en Berlin. De acuerdo con una tradicián familiar, está dentro de lo posible que doña Augusta hubiera falleciido en Berlin, en el ano 1850.

On myheritage we can find Augusta Carnigohl Grasneck (Carmiol) (geb. Pröessel), 1811 - 1850

and later:

Don Julián Carmiol G. murió en San José el 5. de octubre de 1885, a los 78 anos seis especies diferentes, que corresponden a treinta y ocho familias de aves, en las que hay un número regular de especies nuevas.

So he was German and not Swiss. To find additional on Francisco (Franz) it may necessary to dig in the archives of Berlin to find his birth date. About him we can find in the paper:

En el año 1875 la familia Carmiol sufrió un duro golpe: la muerte del hijo Francisco, de 31 años de edad, naturalista como su padre, y compañeros inseparables, Francisco murío de 29 de marzo de 1875 a causa de un accidente fatal, pues fue atacado por una serpiente al sacaria de la jaula, debido a su dedicación a la cienca.

So Franz Carmiol (born Franz Grasneck) in the key may be enhanced by (?1844-1875) died by a snake bit.
 
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I think Franz "Francisco" Carmiol's true (birth) name was Franz Carnigohl, alt. in full; Ferdinand Otto Ludwig Franz Carnigohl (Karnigölch?) Prössel.

Born in Berlin, Germany, in 1844, Son of the German gardener Julian (Julius?) Carnigohl (1807–1885) [later, post-1854, in Costa Rica; known as Julián Carmiol] and his wife Augusta (1811–1850), née Prössel (alt. Proessel, Pröessel or even Preschl) ... after Augusta's death the remaining family (Father and four kids) emigrated to Costa Rica (they left, from Bremen, in December 1853) .. and Franz ("Francisco") died in 1875 (29th of March), in San José, Costa Rica (at the age of 31).

He´s commemorated in:
• Carmiol's Tanager (Habia) Chlorothraupis carmioli LAWRENCE 1868 (1870), here, as "Phœnicothraupis carmioli", a k a Olive Tanager (a k a Orthogonys carmioli?)

I guess the "Grasneck" part only goes for his father. Possibly yet another case when his Mother's name was included (in the Spanish tradition) ...

A bit short of time right now, so take the above for what it´s worth (mostly written from memory). I'm off to the Stockholm University Library, to check yet another book in this matter; the Swedish naturalist Carl Bovallius visited Carmiol (senior) in the early 1880's.

I will return with more info ...

Björn

PS: Hopefully I will be able to find some of James's twelve remaining, still missing, Generic names. We´ll see.
 
Mr Bovallius and Carmiol (Senior) ...

The book by Carl Bovallius, Resa i Central-Amerika 1881-1883 (in two parts, 1887), didn´t add much. A bit disappointing ...

It only told us that Bovallius met Carmiol (no First name), in 1882:
Hos en gammal tysk samlare och köpman, Carmiol, gjorde jag flera gånger besök och tröttnade ej att beundra hans vackra trädgård, der han samlat en mängd botaniska rariteter från alla delar af Costa Rica, ... [...]. Äfven åtskilliga för den central-amerikanska faunan egendomliga djur hade jag der tillfälle att studera. För den, som på museerna i Berlin och London studerat denna fauna och flora, är Carmiols namn väl bekant, ty många intressanta former ha af honom blifvit sända till dessa samlingar.
... which (roughly) means:

"I made several visits to an old German collector and trader, Carmiol, never tiered of watching his beautiful garden, where he has gathered a multitude of botanical rarities from all parts of Costa Rica, ... [...]. There I also had the opportunity to study several for the Central-American Fauna peculiar animals. For the one who have studied this Fauna and Flora, in the museums of Berlin and London, is Carmiol's name well known, as many interesting forms have been sent to those collections by him."

That´s about it!

The only good thing is that we now can forget about the claim that Carmiol Senior died in 1855 (which some have claimed). Pretty hard to be dead, while repeatedly having a Swedish guest! ;)

Bovallius only mentioned Carmiol one more time, from the same year; where Carmiol, in his turn, was a guest, visiting a Mr Müllner for a few days (together with the botanist Mr. Hübsch and a Mr. Steinworth).

After that old Carmiol is out of the picture, all off itinerary. In August 1882 Bovallius went North, to Nicaragua ... and onwards.

I´ll return when I have compiled what I´ve got this far ...

Björn
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A confusing list ...

One more post before I try to compile what I´ve got this far (which isn´t very much) on 2 X Carmiol ...

In the recently found paper, Revista de Agricultura 45 (1973), by Carmiol Calvo, there´s a short list of various commemorations (both birds and plants), see attached jpg, that puzzles me. The one I´m a bit confused about is what he lists as "Orthogonys carmioli, Lawr."!?!

A (combined) name I´d never seen before. Surely this must me the same bird as the one on top of it; "Phoenicothaupis [sic] carmioli, Lawr." ... or? Today known as (Habia) Chlorothraupis carmioli* LAWRENCE 1868 (1870) ... which he also lists!?!

Maybe Carmiol Calvo simply wasn´t much of an ornithologist (or, at least, not familiar with modern day taxonomy)? To me it looks like he only noted down whatever names he could find, in whatever literature, commemorating Carmiol (i.e. not checking the ODs themselves) ...

Compare with the entries in today's HBW Alive Key:
carmioli
● Franz Carmiol (born Franz Grasneck) (1844-1875) German immigrant, son of Julian Carmiol, resident and collector in Costa Rica (Habia).
● Julian Carmiol (born Julian Garnigohl Grasneck) (1807-1885) German immigrant to Nicaragua 1853, resident and collector in Costa Rica 1854-1885 (Vireo).
carnioli
Julian Carmiol (born Julian Garnigohl Grasneck) (1807-1885) German immigrant to Nicaragua 1853, resident and collector in Costa Rica 1854-1885 (syn. Chalybura urochrysia melanorrhoa).
Also compare with what's written in The Eponym Dictionary of birds, 2014 (here), that differ regarding the initial letter of the surname Carnigohl (without the "Grasneck" part) and their original Nationality (the claim of them being "Swiss" is erroneous, as far as I can tell).

However; before I go any further, just to be on the safe side: Does anyone know if there is/was yet another bird (in Mitrospingidae) commemorating either the Father or the Son Carmiol?

Björn

PS. Note that there are quite a few misspellings/typos (that I can spot), here and there, in that (Spanish) Paper of 1973, so we have to be careful trusting the various, exact spellings in it.
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*OD = here ... (in Swedish; carmiolkardinal, and as such included in my MS, thereby my interest in Carmiol)
 

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Phoenicothaupis (= Phoenicothraupis) carmioli, Orthogonys carmioli and Chlorothraupis carmioli are all earlier names/combinations for what is now Habia carmioli.

The name Julian Garnigohl Grasneck I obtained from the manifest of a vessel taking immigrants from Germany to Nicaragua in 1853 (but, alas, I no longer have that reference).
 
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The name Julian Garnigohl Grasneck I obtained from the manifest of a vessel taking immigrants from Germany to Nicaragua in 1853 (but, alas, I no longer have that reference).
So I guessed James, I got that one as well; from Immigrant Ships Transcribers Guild (2002), for the Brig Antoinette (here):
Passenger #14 Mr. Garnigohl his name was Julian Garnigohl Grasneck. His wife was Augusta Proessell who died in Germany probably few years or months before he came to Costa Rica. He came with 4 children, Ana, Berta, Franz, and Julio Garnigohl Proessell. All of them died in Costa Rica. Julian Garnigohl married again in Costa Rica with a lady named Flores with whom he had 2 daughters. The only Garnigohl male that survived was Julio Garnigohl Proessell. When they arrived in Costa Rica they changed the name to Carmiol.
...
... which is from the proper Ship, the one that took them to Nicaragua, in December 1853 (onwards by land, to Costa Rica, where they arrived in January -54) ... but note that the Original document was written in Spanish (as of here), which makes me suspect that the Grasneck part could, might (?) be valid only for Carmiol (senior), i.e. if his Mother's Maiden name was Grasneck (in that Spanish tradition), and not applicable on little Franz (later known as Franscisco), who´s late Mother's Maiden name was Prössel/Proessel/Pröessel/Preschl.

This could also explain the various Carnigohl/Garnigohl versions. Who know what hand-writing (of any old sea dog) lies behind ...

I´ll be back, in a day or two, with what I´ve got.

Björn

PS. And thanks, James, for making it possible for me to delete the Orthogonys one, from my List of eventualities.
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Meanwhile, if anyone feel like trying to trace the Parents of Julian (Julius?) Carnigohl (i.e. Senior, "our guy", the collector, a k a Julián Carmiol), born 1 January 1807, in Berlin, Germany ... who died 6 October 1885, in San José, Costa Rica (wife in post #8) ... go for it!

This far I haven´t been able to find them; the Parents of Carmiol (Senior), the Grandparents of Franz ...

But that´s me, not knowing, not understanding, much German.

Solving the Carmiols is messier than most eponyms!

/B

PS: But watch out; remember the other Son (and possible namesake)!
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Ok, so this is what I´ve got ... and hold on to your hats! It´s a winding path ...

I´ll start with the only bird commemorating a "Carmiol" in its Swedish Common name; the carmiolkardinal (thereby my interest in this matter), which is equal of:

• Carmiol's Tanager (Habia) Chlorothraupis carmioli LAWRENCE 1868 (1870), here, as "Phœnicothraupis carmioli", a k a Olive Tanager (in between a k a "Orthogonys carmioli"):
I have dedicated this species to Mr. F. Carmiol, as a proper acknowledgment of his efficiency as a collector.
That the "F." wasn´t a typo (which have been suspected, and why not, it could have been) is proven beyond doubt, by Herbert G. Deignan's Type Specimens of Birds in the United States National Museum, from 1961 (see attached excerpt, from p.582): "Collected by Francisco Carmiol".

In my MS, compiled from various sources (books, journals and different papers, as well as from various, more or less inconsistent, sometimes straight out contradictory Genealogy sites) I have him (and them) as:

... the fairly unknown, young German (later German-Costa Rican) guy, most often known as Francisco Carmiol (1844–1875), a k a Franz Carnigohl or ditto Garnigohl alt. Franz Carnigohl Proessel or even Franz Carnigohl Grasneck (even if the latter version, most likely, is erroneous) – whose Original full name most likely was; Ferdinand Otto Ludwig Franz Carnigohl (Karnigölch?).

Yes! A bit messy and somewhat vague, I agree, (too vague for most I guess!?), but that´s as far as I could take him ... it´s simply a mishmash of names "out there" ... sorry!

In short: Born in Berlin, 1844 (no dates found), Son of Julian (Julius?) Carnigohl (1807–1885) and his wife Augusta (1811–1850), née Prössel ... young Franz emigrated, with his widowed Father in 1853 (together with three Sibling and two Uncles), they arrived in Costa Rica in January 1854 ... where he became known as "Francisco Carmiol" (following his Father's change of Surnamn, from Carnigohl into Carmiol), collector, inseparable companion to his Father ... and onwards ... until he died; the 29th of March 1875, in San José, Costa Rica – after having been bitten by a snake!

That´s about it!

I don´t think "Grasneck" ever was a part of his name (that belonged to his Father, Carmiol Senior), as I´ve seen no-one using it on the Son (except in the Key, of course, and in papers simply quoting Jobling). Compare with the Passenger List (in post #12), originally written in Spanish, where the kids, and his brother "Julio", was mentioned as "Julio Garnigohl Proessell". I can´t see why young Franz (the forthcoming Francisco) would have had a different surname than his Siblings?

But, as always: Don´t hesitate to prove me wrong!

The same goes for other parts of the above, even the tiniest detail ...

Björn
 

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And, for completeness sake; the other two Carmiol birds (even if they´re not commemorated in any Swedish Common Bird name) ...

• Yellow-winged Vireo Vireo carmioli BAIRD 1866 (here) a k a Carmiol's Vireo:
I have named it after Mr. Julian Carmiol, who has been so indefatigable in developing the ornithology of Costa Rica.

... and the odd one out (the reason itself, why Martin started this thread):

• the invalid "Chalybura Carnioli" [sic] LAWRENCE 1865, (OD in post #1, or here) [Synonym of Chalybura urochrysia melanorrhoa SALVIN 1865] ... clearly misspelled, but even so dedicated to Carmiol (senior):
I have named it in compliment to Mr. Julian Carniol whose large collections sent to the Smithsonian Institution (containing many new species besides this) give evidence of his energy and industry as an explorer.
Also compare with two attached excerpts, from Deignan (1961).

... which I would say commemorate the German (alt. German-Costa Rican) guy mostly known as; Julián Carmiol (1807–1885), a k a Julian Carnigohl alt. Julian Garnigohl – whose Original, German name most likely was Julian (Julius?) Carnigohl (Karnigölch?). In Spanish a k a Don Julián Carmiol Grasneck (which probably is a result of the tradition of adding his Mother's Maiden name ... simply to explain his closest Origin/Heritage/to place him in context).

Born 1 January 1807, in Berlin, Germany, of unknown Parents, ... first wife Augusta (1811-1850) née Prössel (as well written either; Pröessel, Proessel or even Preschl!?!) ... emigrated/settled down to/in Costa Rica (as in post #14), ... second marriage, in 1857, with miss Flores (no years) [i.e. Paula Vicenta Flores García, Daughter of Manuel Flores and his wife Rafaela García], resulting in four more Daughters, ... collector for various Museums (Smithsonian, Berlin, London), [he used a long, one-piece wooden blowgun (like the Natives) to catch many birds!], and onwards ... until he died; on the 6th* of October 1885 – at the age of 78.

In my notes (and most of it is included in my MS) I have Carmiol (Senior) as; Gardener and, continuously (more and more professional) Explorer, Naturalist, Taxidermist, Collector [of various Naturalia; Birds, Plants, Molluscs, etc., as well as ethnological items (from the Costa Rican Natives/Indians)], also frequent Trader (of ditto) ... and even owner of a minor Restaurant, in San José. A multi-talented guy!

Disclaimer: Note that I haven´t checked Carmiol Senior as thorough as his Son, this I have to admit, I only looked into Julián's two birds, in hope to be able to find anything on Franz/Francisco. I haven´t dug much further back in history than what´s been written in this thread, this far (simply due to lack of time).

Any additional facts (whatever minor or major, as well as possible corrections) regarding Carmiol Senior are, of course, warmly welcomed.

The same naturally goes for Carmiol Junior!

/B

PS. None of them to confuse with the Costa Rican poet Señor don Francisco (Julio del So) Carmiol Calvo (of Guadalupe). The latter Carmiol (Calvo) was born in 1910.
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* not "el 5. de octubre", as in the quote in post #7 (typo, Martin?).
See attached excerpt, from Carmiol Calvo (1973)

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Sure, Martin, but I wouldn´t bet on it; compare with the following links: here, here, here, or here... and onwards!

And; that´s only a few examples. The different, various spellings goes on and on and on ... even if links like the latter one (this time to Carl Gramoll) does include an intriguing Photo and some kind of (Church/Birth) record of a "Carl Christian Conrad Julius (Julio) Carnigohl (Carmiol Proessel)" ... possibly the other Son? Or? Who knows?

That´s what I meant with a "mishmash" and "contradictory Genealogy sites".

Let´s hope somebody finds a Birth record that clearly can be connected to the Naturalist we know as Julián Carmiol.

Solving this one, in full, is far, far beyond my capacity ...

/B
 
No replies ... in ten days. Great! Makes me quite happy, by now I´m pretty fed up with the Carmiol Family. ;)

Contrary to the way their name is written in today's HBW Alive Key I will stick to my versions: Francisco Carmiol (1844–1875), born Franz Carnigohl (P...) and Julián Carmiol (1807–1885), born Julian (Julius?) Carnigohl (G...) ... until proven otherwise.

That´s it. I´m off to other, hopefully easier, etymologies.

2 X Carmiol ... over and out!

Björn

PS: To me; these two guys, Father and Son Carmiol looks like a suitable Project for anyone keen, who wants to dig further, checking it in full, with a possibility to make an impact, a true contribution, maybe even ending up in a Paper of its own!? These two collectors are certainly commemorated enough to deserve such a publication ... well, it won´t be me, but if someone feel like it, with time to spare; ... go for it!

I sure would love to read it.
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This is a really interesting post to me!

Hello! First of all, I want to apologize for unearthing such an old post. However, this is a very interesting thread to me, not necessarily because of the birds (which is the reason for this forum), but because of the story.

As my username suggests, my last name is Carmiol, Rafael Angel Carmiol Murillo to be precise. Julius Carnigohl Grasneck was my great-great-grandfather. All the data in this thread is amazing, and I do have some of the answers to some of the questions asked in this thread. Maybe its of no use, but again maybe somebody can also find in interesting.

First of all, even between my family, there is debate onto what the original last name was. I have seen it spelled Carnigohl, Garnigohl, Karnigölch, and variations ad. infinitum. What I do know, is that when Julius Carnigohl Grasneck settled in Costa Rica, as for 1800s Costa Ricans, german was probably nothing more than gibberish, he changed his name from Julius to Julian, and the family name from Carnigohl to Carmiol. This is so much so, that every single Carmiol in the planet can be traced back to Julian Carmiol. (as a funny note, I once got in contact with a Carmiol from Italy, although she was Italian, her dad turned out to be Costa Rican)

What I do know as maybe evidence of the correct spelling of my original last name is this:
My dad has a handwritten Mother's Day letter from Julian Carmiol to his mother, dated somewhere in the 1800s. It is written in some old German dialect (which we got translated). The letter in itself is amazing, as it has a crown of dissected flowers embedded in the paper. I could get a scan of it if somebody is interested. Anyways, in this paper, Julian Carmiol signs his name as Julius Carnigohl (this when he was a kid apparently, so for sure before he changed his name).

Now, onto some confirmation on what the thread was about.

My great-great-grandfather was Julián Carmiol Grasneck, born in Germany as Christian Friedrich Julius Carnigohl Grazneck. Now, Grazneck was his mother's last name. In Costa Rica, names include the fathers last name and mothers last name, and because most accounts of him are from Costa Rican historians (apparently), it is customary to include the mother's last name after the last name. He married Augusta Prössel (born Charlotte Friederike Auguste Prössel), who apparently died before he moved to Costa Rica. I'm attaching a picture of the happy couple.

They had a son named Francisco Carmiol, born Ferdinand Otto Ludwig Franz Carnigohl Prössel. Again, Prössel is just the mother's (Augusta) last name, pasted at the end of the name as per Costa Rican naming standards.

One of my dad's cousins has a book with several of the birds and plants discovered by both Julian and Francisco.

I can just assume that on their original trip to Costa Rica, they found it to be a paradise.

This is a quote from "Wildlife in Costa Rica" wikipedia page":
Costa Rica is considered to possess the highest density of biodiversity of any country worldwide. While encompassing just one third of a percent of Earth's landmass, approximately the size of West Virginia, Costa Rica contains four percent of species estimated to exist on the planet. Hundreds of these species are endemic to Costa Rica, meaning they exist nowhere else on earth. These endemic species include frogs, snakes, lizards, finches, hummingbirds, gophers, mice, cichlids, and gobies among many more.

So for sure there was plenty of flora and fauna nobody in Europe had ever heard of.

So anyways, hope somebody finds this useful! And thanks for the slight tribute to by ancestors!
 

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Contrary to the way their name is written in today's HBW Alive Key I will stick to my versions: Francisco Carmiol (1844–1875), born Franz Carnigohl (P...) and Julián Carmiol (1807–1885), born Julian (Julius?) Carnigohl (G...) ... until proven otherwise.

Oh and basically you got it correct!
 
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