Help with Zeiss Diascope 65mm query (1 Viewer)

digitalbirdy · Mar 2, 2006

I have seen a new Zeiss Diascope 65mm at what seems to be a very inexpensive price. Can someone tell me please, do all these have FL lenses. Or do Zeiss do non FL models.

I ask because I was going to buy an Opticron (ED model) and wondered which would be better as the prices are not far different!

Thanks - Adrian

Keith Reeder · Mar 2, 2006

All Diascopes are FL/ED/APO, Adrian, and the 65mm + 15-45 zoom is a wondrous combination.

digitalbirdy · Mar 2, 2006

Hello Keith, thank you for your helpful response.
But I need to ask to clarify just a little more -

Do you mean that all Ziess Diascopes are either FL or ED or APO. Or are all Diascopes all three of the above combined?

+ Does anyone know if the Highest quality Opticron eyepieces can be adapted for use with Ziess scopes. Or will I have to sell all these if I change to Ziess?

many thanks - Adrian

Keith Reeder · Mar 2, 2006

They're all FL, Adrian - but ED, FL and APO tend to be used interchangeably, I've noticed, to indicate "special" glass.

In fact, the Diascopes all use a fluoride [sic] objective (and AFAIK some internal glass too), and are therefore using Extra (low) Dispersal (ED) glass - and they are of apochromatic (APO) design.

I don't know how satisfactory you'd find adopting even the best Opticron EPs (good though they are): I don't believe for a second that any of them would be a patch on the Zeiss zoom for clarity, brightness, FOV (in fact, definitely not close for FOV) and sheer usability - I still grin like a loon every time I look through mine, and I've had it for over a year now.

digitalbirdy · Mar 2, 2006

Thanks so much Keith.

If I hadn't already invested 2 of Opticron best non zoom eyepieces already, I would just snap at the Ziess.

I guess its make my mind up time now!!!

pduxon · Mar 2, 2006

digitalbirdy said:
Thanks so much Keith.

If I hadn't already invested 2 of Opticron best non zoom eyepieces already, I would just snap at the Ziess.

I guess its make my mind up time now!!!

go somewhere and compare the two out of interest what opticron scope?

digitalbirdy · Mar 3, 2006

Hi pduxon, I was considering the Opticron HR 66 ED (straight version), as it retails for about £460 which financially for me is quite a big step-up anyway. This is why I am trying to make a careful judgement.

I currently own the Opticron IS60 which has been a great starter scope, but now I can see its limitations, I want something that I can try and take 'professional' standard photos with (hopefully).

pduxon · Mar 3, 2006

the 66ED is a really good scope with say the HDF 28ww lens.

how much have you seen that Zeiss for? As you already have some HDF lenses.......

I know you can get a straight Zeiss with 30ww for £600 to get one with the zoom will be £800+ I think.

unless you are going for the mail order return.

As an addendum there are number of people who rave about the Zeiss on here BUT a number of them took advantage of the free lens offer that w/express did a while back so they bought on price and did necessarily audition it against the opposition. Doesn't mean its a bad scope though.

postcardcv · Mar 3, 2006

pduxon said:
go somewhere and compare the two out of interest what opticron scope?

very sound advice.

The Zeiss seems to really get people going - you'll either love it or hate it.

digitalbirdy · Mar 4, 2006

Hi pduxon - yes wharehouse are still doing the Ziess with 30x eyepiece for £600 thats what tempted me. But now I see they are offering the Opticron HR 66 Ga for only £299. Including case and eyepiece!

It seems too cheap somehow? Unless its a non ED model, but I cant see a non ED HR opticron model in the range from their catalogue.

(Please excuse me if this seems a little off-topic in the Ziess forum, but thats what I am comparing it to!)

Thank you all for your patience.

Chris Oates · Mar 4, 2006

digitalbirdy said:
Hi pduxon - yes wharehouse are still doing the Ziess with 30x eyepiece for £600 thats what tempted me. But now I see they are offering the Opticron HR 66 Ga for only £299. Including case and eyepiece!

It seems too cheap somehow? Unless its a non ED model, but I cant see a non ED HR opticron model in the range from their catalogue.

(Please excuse me if this seems a little off-topic in the Ziess forum, but thats what I am comparing it to!)

Thank you all for your patience.

It's a non ED scope - are you near Truro ??
South West Optics are there - maybe you could try some scopes

Keith Reeder · Mar 4, 2006

postcardcv said:
The Zeiss seems to really get people going - you'll either love it or hate it.

I see a lot of uninformed bias where the Zeiss products are concerned, but nobody who actually tries one could possibly, ever, in a million years, hate it.

You might prefer a Nikon, a Swaro or a Leica, but the Zeiss gear is objectively superb by any standard you might wish to apply: the differences between it and the rest are down to personal preference.

pduxon said:
As an addendum there are number of people who rave about the Zeiss on here BUT a number of them took advantage of the free lens offer that w/express did a while back so they bought on price and did necessarily audition it against the opposition. Doesn't mean its a bad scope though.

Well I "rave on" about the Zeiss, and yes, I bought it at the offer price: BUT I've also tried the alternatives, and any implication that it was only worth buying because it was cheap is utterly unfounded - it's every bit as good as the rest in most respects, and better in others.

I bought because the price was good, but I didn't just "buy on price" (the offer just meant I got it sooner than I otherwise would), and I don't care for the rather dismissive suggestion that those of us who took up on the offer did so simply because it was cheap.

It is simply a bloody spectacularly good scope.

Keith Reeder · Mar 4, 2006

digitalbirdy said:
Hi pduxon - yes Warehouse are still doing the Zeiss with 30x eyepiece for £600 thats what tempted me. But now I see they are offering the Opticron HR 66 Ga for only £299. Including case and eyepiece!

I sold off that very Opticron (well no, mine was the straight version - I'd owned it for about four years) when I bought the Zeiss.

Trust me when I say that not only is the Opticron not in the game, it's not even the same league.

Really: it's not on the same planet.

Don't get me wrong, the Opticron is an OK scope: but Zeiss is better by an order of magnitude.

pduxon · Mar 4, 2006

Keith Reeder said:
I bought because the price was good, but I didn't just "buy on price" (the offer just meant I got it sooner than I otherwise would), and I don't care for the rather dismissive suggestion that those of us who took up on the offer did so simply because it was cheap.

Keith

I was just making the point that some people DID buy on price. I've met one member who said they preferred the Leica but given that price at the time.....

Personally I don't see anything wrong with that.

I have my own views on what is the best 60mm scope (I own the Leica) but I accept that the Swaro, Nikon and Zeiss all have there strong points and the differences in optical quality aren't that great and will come down to personal preference. I would advise ANYONE however to read the advice on this forum but make their own call on what they buy.

----

Adrian

as has been pointed out only look at the ED version of the HR66 the non ED version is not as good as the ED. You really need to compare the Zeiss with it to see what you prefer. The Opticron is a very good scope and you have some good lenses already to fit it. Only you can decide what is thebest way to spend your money.

There is a review of the 65 on www.alula.fi

pduxon · Mar 4, 2006

digitalbirdy said:
Hi pduxon - yes wharehouse are still doing the Ziess with 30x eyepiece for £600 thats what tempted me. But now I see they are offering the Opticron HR 66 Ga for only £299. Including case and eyepiece!

It seems too cheap somehow? Unless its a non ED model, but I cant see a non ED HR opticron model in the range from their catalogue.

(Please excuse me if this seems a little off-topic in the Ziess forum, but thats what I am comparing it to!)

Thank you all for your patience.

Adrian

I think Opticron are dropping the non ED HR66 which is why w/express have the offer.

postcardcv · Mar 4, 2006

Keith Reeder said:
I see a lot of uninformed bias where the Zeiss products are concerned, but nobody who actually tries one could possibly, ever, in a million years, hate it.

You might prefer a Nikon, a Swaro or a Leica, but the Zeiss gear is objectively superb by any standard you might wish to apply: the differences between it and the rest are down to personal preference.

You are of course completely right - it is a good scope and I doubt anyone could actually hate it. But people do tend to either really like it, or not get on with it - I was just trying to stress the importance of trying these things for yourself (though clearly it wasn't well worded).

mickporter · Mar 5, 2006

I think scopes are like camera's, binoculars, computers or anything else.... If you own a particular model then that is the very best and probably always will be. You will always defend it to the hilt. I doubt in this particular forum which is dedicated to Zeiss and Zeiss owners you are going to get a totally unbiased opinion of the qualities of Opticron!! And vice versa in the Opticron forum........

Opticals are unusual in that what one person sees in one scope another will not. I chose a Zeiss over a Nikon, Swarovski, and Opticron, because to my eyes it appeared not only much brighter, but gave me better colour. Some of the other scopes I tried appeared yellowish or somehow un-natural. I am sure Swarovski scopes or Nikon scopes are perfectly fine, just not for me.

Moving from a low end cheap scope to a high end instrument has lifted my birdwatching to a whole new level. I can now see plumage and other features that were hidden to me before. I thoroughly recommend buying the very best you can afford or saving up until you can buy one. You will not regret it. And certainly before spending £600 or £1000 or more, try every scope you can get your hands on. Look at them all yourself. Never buy one because you like the brand name or because someone else has one and says its good. You may hate it!! Focusing systems vary, eyepieces vary, the whole shape may be wrong for you. So make sure you buy from somewhere like In-Focus or similar where you can try out the items for yourself...... it could be a bad and expensive mistake otherwise!!!!!!

Swissboy · Mar 5, 2006

mickporter said:
If you own a particular model then that is the very best and probably always will be. You will always defend it to the hilt. .....

Moving from a low end cheap scope to a high end instrument has lifted my birdwatching to a whole new level. I can now see plumage and other features that were hidden to me before. I thoroughly recommend buying the very best you can afford or saving up until you can buy one. You will not regret it. ....

Mick, you are probably right that some people lose their objectivity just to make sure they think they have the very best piece of equipment. However, I don't think that everybody functions like that.

Now for your remarks about what a new top-level scope did for you: I had exactly the same experience when I had my first looks through a Leica APO77. It was the only scope in that class at the time, so it was clear I got one of those (fortunately, I had the money ready). Except for the hefty weight, I am still very happy with it, but it would not occur to me, to claim I have the best. In fact, I also own a Nikon EDIII Fieldscope. This one I bought, again, because at the time it was the only one in its class. I needed a light-weight travel scope that was waterproof. In this case, I was not that happy with it at first. But since I have changed to the newer zoom eyepiece and a 30xWA , I am very happy with it. Though, I'd still prefer the focus type of a Zeiss or a Leica.

Now, whatever one's preferences, I very strongly concur with your recommendation that one should not try to get by with a lower class model if one can somehow come up with the money for a better one. I always wonder about all those people here on BF who seem to buy and sell optics all the time, thereby slowly upgrading. I think that is generally resulting in losing quite a bit of money that would be better spent for one of those top models.

Jack Daw · Aug 23, 2006

I have just read a very interesting article on an American birding site concerning a new camera adapter for all Zeiss scopes called the DC4 looks a very very nice piece of equipment however looking at the pics it will only fit angled 'scopes can any one shed any more light on this.Will it be available in the UK if so what will the pricing structure be Many thanks for your help regards Jack.

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