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A thread to discuss Alphas where all opinions are considered equal. (1 Viewer)

Troubador said:
My interpretation is on two levels: first there are alpha brands namely Leica, Zeiss and Swarovski. If someone puts Nikon on their personal alpha brand list I have no objection but Nikon doesn't feature on mine due to their lack of binoculars heritage (cue mountains of posts to put me right on this :-O).

Second there is the more contentious issue of alpha models and which is much more subject to personal preferences and prejudices not to mention arguments about whether an alpha model (Dialyt 7x42, Leica BA/BN??) remains an alpha forever or slips gradually down the list and falls off it at some stage. And thats before we consider how a bins model might qualify to be 'near-alpha'.

Lee
Click to expand...


I think you gonna have to reach deeper Lee. 3:)

Maybe a definition of what heritage is? Not sure heritage has a definitive age statement.

The definition of alpha itself is problematic. There is only one alpha, so which?
 
If we spend the big bucks to purchase an alpha pair, chances are....all of us have done a bit of legwork and know what we want and why, and what our 'alpha pair is', so no convincing anyone on this thread.

I stumbled across this link (initially in 2015 but updated on 5/29/2017) on a BF discussion....not bias, but an interesting review of the good, bad and ugly of the Alphas they have listed: (Nikon EDG, Swarovski SLC and EL, Leica Ultravid, Zeiss HT and SF
http://www.greatestbinoculars.com/allpages/reviews/shootouts/shootoutpremier8x42s/8x42shootout.html

But as I said, it is all up to your eyes, your birding style, what criteria are 'must haves' as opposed to 'okay's'. etc...
Enjoy the read if you haven't seen it before, jim
 
lmans66 said:
If we spend the big bucks to purchase an alpha pair, chances are....all of us have done a bit of legwork and know what we want and why, and what our 'alpha pair is', so no convincing anyone on this thread.

I stumbled across this link (initially in 2015 but updated on 5/29/2017) on a BF discussion....not bias, but an interesting review of the good, bad and ugly of the Alphas they have listed: (Nikon EDG, Swarovski SLC and EL, Leica Ultravid, Zeiss HT and SF
http://www.greatestbinoculars.com/allpages/reviews/shootouts/shootoutpremier8x42s/8x42shootout.html

But as I said, it is all up to your eyes, your birding style, what criteria are 'must haves' as opposed to 'okay's'. etc...
Enjoy the read if you haven't seen it before, jim
Click to expand...

Jim:

Thanks for the link. I had not read the latest version, and it is well done and interesting.

The photos of the color images are well done, and these are unique in
any binocular reviews I have found.

I own some of the binoculars in the test, I agree with many of his thoughts.

Jerry
 
Sandy Leng said:
A couple of years ago I was lucky enough that I was in a position to be able to buy any of the top alpha's of the time. I went along to a very good optics outlet nearby that has all the latest and greatest bins, and spent a good time making my decision.

My decision was biased by the fact that I really, really, don't like green binoculars! No matter how good swaro's are, I will never buy one as long as it's green.

A lot of people might think that's silly, and on my local patch most of the birders use Swarovski. To me though, black is the only colour. I laid my hard earned down for a Zeiss Victory HT 8X42, and two and a half years on I still love them as much as when I bought them.

I still think that Leicas are by far the best looking binoculars ever made though, although they're not for me. My HT's are superb optically, and in my opinion look great!!

The new black SF's look superb, I haven't had the chance to look through one yet, they weren't out when I bought my HT's

Sandy
Click to expand...

What a strange old world as I can't bring myself to purchase a binocular unless its green which is rather limiting given Zeiss no longer offer this option!

Black to my mind is second only to pink/yellow/orange hi-viz in being unsuitable for use in the great outdoors.

Has anyone seen a Leica Noctivid in green?

LGM
 
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Well, since all opinions are equal on this thread, I guess I'll offer mine. IMHO, the term alpha should include premium products that include a premium warranty and customer service, backed by a premium company to include people that will answer the phone, personally talk to you on the phone and be able to answer whatever questions a customer should have.

Z, L, Swaro, and even Nikon (EDG) make alpha products, but I will disqualify Leica from my alpha list, as their pathetic, uncompetitive, non transferrable USA warranties, and a history of pathetic customer service here in the USA will not allow me to even consider owning one anymore. This is a real shame since I used a Leica Trinovid BA for 15 yrs and it served me well. I look at Nikon the same way....clueless team of people there in CS that cannot answer simple questions about their products, and even more clueless people attempting to market their sport optic products.

I guess that leaves me with Swaro and Zeiss in the alpha class. I don't think I'm missing much without Leica and Nikon in the mix.
 
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I haven't had any reason to use any product service with either my Zeiss or Swaro products, but......the pedal perhaps is reaching the metal at this point with a few companies who seemingly are hurting more than others in customer service.

Companies need a quality 'Alpha product', but they also need to have quality 'Alpha service'. It doesn't just go one way. Companies that are attempting to save money on the customer service side might see their sales slide, if not already.

I for one would love to have a second pair of bins, and have looked at the Leica brand. But with what I am reading on this forum...that isn't going to happen. I will stick with Zeiss. Now....I am happy with the HT's so do I get another pair or find a used FL or get more expensive with an SF? Most likely one of the former than the latter for a second pair.


jgraider said:
Well, since all opinions are equal on this thread, I guess I'll offer mine. IMHO, the term alpha should include premium products that include a premium warranty and customer service, backed by a premium company to include people that will answer the phone, personally talk to you on the phone and be able to answer whatever questions a customer should have.

Z, L, Swaro, and even Nikon (EDG) make alpha products, but I will disqualify Leica from my alpha list, as their pathetic, uncompetitive, non transferrable USA warranties, and a history of pathetic customer service here in the USA will not allow me to even consider owning one anymore. This is a real shame since I used a Leica Trinovid BA for 15 yrs and it served me well. I look at Nikon the same way....clueless team of people there in CS that cannot answer simple questions about their products, and even more clueless people attempting to market their sport optic products.

I guess that leaves me with Swaro and Zeiss in the alpha class. I don't think I'm missing much without Leica and Nikon in the mix.
Click to expand...
 
jgraider said:
Well, since all opinions are equal on this thread, I guess I'll offer mine. IMHO, the term alpha should include premium products that include a premium warranty and customer service, backed by a premium company to include people that will answer the phone, personally talk to you on the phone and be able to answer whatever questions a customer should have.

Z, L, Swaro, and even Nikon (EDG) make alpha products, but I will disqualify Leica from my alpha list, as their pathetic, uncompetitive, non transferrable USA warranties, and a history of pathetic customer service here in the USA will not allow me to even consider owning one anymore. This is a real shame since I used a Leica Trinovid BA for 15 yrs and it served me well. I look at Nikon the same way....clueless team of people there in CS that cannot answer simple questions about their products, and even more clueless people attempting to market their sport optic products.

I guess that leaves me with Swaro and Zeiss in the alpha class. I don't think I'm missing much without Leica and Nikon in the mix.
Click to expand...

Where is Meopta......?

Jan
 
jgraider said:
Well, since all opinions are equal on this thread, I guess I'll offer mine. IMHO, the term alpha should include premium products that include a premium warranty and customer service, backed by a premium company to include people that will answer the phone, personally talk to you on the phone and be able to answer whatever questions a customer should have.

Z, L, Swaro, and even Nikon (EDG) make alpha products, but I will disqualify Leica from my alpha list, as their pathetic, uncompetitive, non transferrable USA warranties, and a history of pathetic customer service here in the USA will not allow me to even consider owning one anymore. This is a real shame since I used a Leica Trinovid BA for 15 yrs and it served me well. I look at Nikon the same way....clueless team of people there in CS that cannot answer simple questions about their products, and even more clueless people attempting to market their sport optic products.

I guess that leaves me with Swaro and Zeiss in the alpha class. I don't think I'm missing much without Leica and Nikon in the mix.
Click to expand...


Unfortunately this appears to be the situation in Australia as well.

Swarovski are unique. They have a genuine and fully authorised Austrian Swarovski sporting optics specialist under their employ in oz. He is incredibly supportive and helpful. I can only assume that his primary directive has been to spare absolutely no expense in ensuring that all Swarovski customers are extremely happy and satisfied folk.

I have required customer support and service from other 'alpha' manufacturers.

While others (except Swarovski) have been merely useless, Zeiss service was the most bizarre and disturbing. After being put on hold at various call centres I finally reached Zeiss headquarters, then Zeiss Australia finally transferred me to their elite alpha service department - this consisted of a distracted and arrogantly dismissive man who was busy smoking a cigarette and typing on his computer whilst he aggressively chastised his mad dogs which were barking relentlessly in the background. Zeiss Australia.
It was as though I had been mistakenly transferred through to a back yard Pit-Dog breeder. But no, this was indeed Zeiss, and it was as good as it was going to get at Zeiss. There was no support. Unfathomable stuff from an Alpha brand.

Unfortunate, because Zeiss, Leica and Nikon have gone to the trouble of designing and producing some incredibly good products.


Footnote - I feel compelled to add,
I am the first to acknowledge that these are somewhat trite 'first world' issues. Yes, I do feel that good CS should back up a purchase, especially a significant one...but at the end of the day, this is a hobby. An enjoyable interest. My life certainly wouldn't be in tatters if I never touched another pair of binoculars, Alpha or otherwise.
 
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jan van daalen said:
Where is Meopta......?

Jan
Click to expand...

Good point sir.

I personally love Meopta Meostar products, and feel they are as well built as anything made today. Optically they may not be a SV, SF, or HT, but IMHO they deserve to be mentioned in the alpha class, much more so than Nikon does. Their USA service is top notch.

I guess since Meopta was an OEM for several Zeiss products in the not so distant past, Zeiss must view them as an alpha manufacturer as well.
 
Gijs van Ginkel said:
Yes, where is Meopta??????
Gijs van Ginkel
Click to expand...


What about Optolyth (made in germany) and Steiner?
Perhaps their coatings is lagging a bit but the bins are solid and well made.
Have you tested any of them?

They have bins in about the same price range as Meopta's top bins.

http://www.astroshop.eu/steiner-binoculars-wildlife-xp-8x44/p,45598

http://www.astroshop.eu/optolyth-binoculars-vianova-7x42-bga/p,8371

The 7x42 vianova have been more expensive before, but now very unusual with a 7x bin in that price range.
 
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Vespobuteo, post 73,
Regarding your question: Yes I have tested binoculars and telescopes of both brands Optolyth and Steiner. And I have spoken about the experience with these brands with different shop owners etc.
Gijs van Ginkel
 
Loud Green Man said:
What a strange old world as I can't bring myself to purchase a binocular unless its green which is rather limiting given Zeiss no longer offer this option!

Black to my mind is second only to pink/yellow/orange hi-viz in being unsuitable for use in the great outdoors.

Has anyone seen a Leica Noctivid in green?

LGM
Click to expand...

I can totally understand that you prefer green binoculars, we are all different after all, but I can't understand why you think that when they are black they are unsuitable for the outdoors?

I stand to be corrected but I believe the armed forces use black binoculars, and an unsuitable colour would definitely be a big issue for them

Sandy
 
I admit it's far more of an esthetic thing than being overly handicapped by use of a black binocular in the field but the reality is the dedicated birding photographer will cover his telephoto lens in green or camouflage cloth tape to compliment a hide and the military often do something similar to tone down equipment. Applying CerCoat® to black sniper rifles in an earth coloring to name but one.

But I accept your probably don't conduct your birdwatching in full camouflage or even muted colours of the feild so let's enjoy our preference. After all the housing colour won't impact the view through them.

LGM
 
Loud Green Man said:
I admit it's far more of an esthetic thing than being overly handicapped by use of a black binocular in the field but the reality is the dedicated birding photographer will cover his telephoto lens in green or camouflage cloth tape to compliment a hide and the military often do something similar to tone down equipment. Applying CerCoat® to black sniper rifles in an earth coloring to name but one.

But I accept your probably don't conduct your birdwatching in full camouflage or even muted colours of the feild so let's enjoy our preference. After all the housing colour won't impact the view through them.

LGM
Click to expand...

I'm not at all sure birds see colors the same way we do, I think they can see UV, so black or green may make less difference than the ability to be still for extended lengths of time.
 
If I think about it one definition of alpha(full sized) binoculars could be: binoculars in the price range around an average monthly salary of a working class person...
 
Holy grail: Ultravid 7x42 HD Plus. Grace Kelly in Technicolor.

True love: Habicht 8x30. Cary Grant in Technicolor. So, it depends.

For the poor student: Optolyth Alpin 10x40 (my first bin, 1993, 753 hard earned German Marks).

Vintage: Leitz Binuxit 8x30

Great achievement but not fit for longterm relationship: Zeiss HT 8x42

What next: Optolyth Alpin 8x30 late

Very sweet memories: Leica Ultravid 8x32

Honorable mention, from the bottom of the heart: Nikon SE 8x32

Should I try again: Canon 10x42 IS

If only I could have a closer look:
1. Leica Perger Geovid 8x56
2. Victory 7x42
3. Victory 8x56
4. Leica Noctivid 8x42. No, I´ll put Nocivid on 2.


If only they could build sth. like this:

1. Nikon 8x30 E2 with Swarovski Habicht transmission and mechanical quality. Impossible, because Nikon would need a time machine and travel 20 years into the future.

2. A Nikon EDG that is better than an Ultravid and does not cost more. But probably no one will take notice anyway.

3. Leitz Binuxit 8x30 modernized, with a red dot.

4. Zeiss West 8x30 last version, modernized, but with classic Zeiss logo.

5. A Swarovski SLC 7x42/8x42 that looks half as good and is almost as good as an Ultravid.
 
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Tobias Mennle said:
Holy grail: Ultravid 7x42 HD Plus. Grace Kelly in Technicolor.

True love: Habicht 8x30. Cary Grant in Technicolor. So, it depends.

For the poor student: Optolyth Alpin 10x40 (my first bin, 1993, 753 hard earned German Marks).

Vintage: Leitz Binuxit 8x30

Great achievement but not fit for longterm relationship: Zeiss HT 8x42

What next: Optolyth Alpin 8x30 late

Very sweet memories: Leica Ultravid 8x32

Honorable mention, from the bottom of the heart: Nikon SE 8x32

Should I try again: Canon 10x42 IS

If only I could have a closer look:
1. Leica Perger Geovid 8x56
2. Victory 7x42
3. Victory 8x56
4. Leica Noctivid 8x42. No, I´ll put Nocivid on 2.


If only they could build sth. like this:

1. Nikon 8x30 E2 with Swarovski Habicht transmission and mechanical quality. Impossible, because Nikon would need a time machine and travel 20 years into the future.

2. A Nikon EDG that is better than an Ultravid and does not cost more. But probably no one will take notice anyway.

3. Leitz Binuxit 8x30 modernized, with a red dot.

4. Zeiss West 8x30 last version, modernized, but with classic Zeiss logo.

5. A Swarovski SLC 7x42/8x42 that looks half as good and is almost as good as an Ultravid.
Click to expand...

Outstanding list. I'll ditto nearly all of it :t:
 
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