Greetings Everyone! Question for Canon 100x400 users (1 Viewer)

Hi everyone,
This is my first post. I found this forum via Google when searching subjects such as, HOW TO USE THE CANON 100X400 LENS |=\|

A little history on me, I'm a novice shooter with an interest in bird photography (as a hobby). I have no desire to make money ... I just want to take decent photos.

I purchased my first SLR (50D) in May of 2010 and then bought the 100x400 lens in September. Since I've had no training in photography I have spent the last seven months attempting to teach myself. |=\|

The more I read and try with the 100x400 the more aggravated I get. No matter what I do the focus is off or they are not as sharp as I would like.

I'm not sure if anyone here can help me and I guess the main reason for my post is to pick the brains of photographers using this lens. For example, I was reading today on a forum how one fellow recommended 380mm for sharper images. He also uses F8 and higher.

My biggest problem is people give advice on bird photography but they are either not using this lens or they give advice on this lens but their photos look even worse than mine!

I've been practicing at the feeder, so nothing really to brag out, but here are a few.

In a nutshell your shutter speeds are too slow and that is why the images are not sharp.

I'd try at least 1/250 sec as an absolute minimum. If you use a tripod and the birds aren't moving you can get away with less obviously. For small active birds like the ones above I'd go for 1/400.

F8 is the sweet spot on my 100-400 and I try and use that as much as possible. Try F8 in AV mode and raise the ISO if the shutter speed is too low. ISO 400 is a good 'default' setting. If it's really dark you need higher ISO and F5.6. Once you get used to which combinations of ISO/Aperture/Shutter speed work in which situations you can start using Manual mode...........

I looked at the data on two images, the 3rd and 4th.

I rarely shoot at ISO 100. When correctly exposing you will not get much digital noise (coloured spots) at ISO 200 and hardly any at ISO 400...so your starting point in good light should be ISO200.

You say that the focus when you shoot is off or the images are not sharp. If your focus really is off you need to determine if this is the camera/lens or you. Do some tests in good light using a tripod or making sure your lens is resting on something firm and take some test shots of a static subject, for real world shooting a fluffy toy the size of a song bird is ideal. If you find that your pictures are not focused correctly you will need to calibrate your camera lens set up (seek advice). If the pictures are sharp and focused then other factors are involved.

Make sure that the diopter (view finder) is correctly set for your eyes.

If you are freely hand holding you must set the focus to Al-Servo. This means that any micro movements that you or the bird makes should be tracked i.e. the focus will stay on the bird provided you keep the central focusing sensor on it. The amount of sway in the human body can be considerable and is easily revealed in the image especially when a small depth of field exists (as when using long lenses) hence missing the critical focus: a 1/4 inch can make all the difference!
If you use Al-Servo you can only focus with the central focus spot so you will not be able to compose 'in camera' (unless you use advanced techniques).

HokkaidoStu is correct, f8 tends to be the sweet spot not just for the 100-400 but nearly all long lenses. Getting sufficient shutter speed is the key so if you have to shoot at f5.6 then do so. The difference in sharpness between f5.6 and f8 is not huge but be aware that the depth of field will be less and significant if you are very near the bird.

Try to focus on the bird's eye or cheek to reveal detail where it counts...often referred to as being critically sharp....an incorrect term in my view, the term should be 'critically focused'.

Having some directional light behind you can help to reveal more detail in a bird's plumage.

Read some photography books ....not just on bird photography.

Keep practicing, then keep practicing and if you learn just a little bit each time you will eventually become much improved.

Most digitally created images require sharpening with software to a greater or lesser extent.

Finally my 100-400 is about ready for the knackers yard and is not the sharpest there is (repairs needed) but it is still sharp enough even at f5.6 see images below taken at f5.6. It has been a great lens and still is. The nuthatch is full frame and the cropped shot of the same image is at 100%, the coal tit is taken at f5.6 ,1/200 sec. I generally turn off IS at around 1/600th sec ,if I remember:-O...not turning IS off at higher speeds can make images softish. Remember also when using IS give it time to 'kick in'...don't click until the image is settled in the view finder.

Good luck :t:

AD

Most of my recent gallery images were taken with the 100-400mm (you can be the judge as to whether or not they are any good). Anyway, here are my observations / suggestions:

1) Good light is really important. Better bird photos tend to have clear eyes with good catchlights. You normally need good light (preferably behind you) to achieve that. With good light, you also will have faster shutter speeds to eliminate motion blur and you'll get better contrast and pick up more detail.

2) My normal set-up is ISO 800, F/8, Aperture Priority , spot metering . I go back and forth between one-shot and AI Servo - whichever provides the best focus under current conditions. I might change the ISO up or down if the light is unusually good (or bad).

3) I almost always shoot in high-speed continuous drive mode and select the best file in the series. Continous shooting provides two advantages, a) the lens / camera tends to settle down during the sequence and you will find one or two images in a sequence sharper than others, b) you'll get to select the best head angle, open-eyed shot in the sequence.

4) Image Stabilization (almost) always on.

5) I stopped taking bird shots on feeders - no matter how sharp they were, the feeder never looked good to me. Some folks set up a natural looking perch next to their feeder, some locate their feeders near to trees / foliage and take shots there.

I also use the Canon 7D, which probably helps a little by having better noise performance and by providing a larger file size.

"I was reading today on a forum how one fellow recommended 380mm for sharper images. He also uses F8 and higher"

Ignore generalisations. My 100-400mm is every bit as sharp at 400mm and f/6.3 as it is at 380mm and f/8.

There's no one-size-fits-all sweet spot for the lens, and while yours might be sharper at 380mm and/or f/8, other people saying "that's how it is" doesn't necessarily make it true for you.

Yes, shutter speed matters, and I happily use whatever ISO I need to, to maintain it (the bird on the beach here - a European Goldfinch - is at 1000 ISO, 1/400, 400mm, f/6.3) but frankly I think your files simply need some more sharpening - see attached, which look fine in sharpness terms.

I've also attached another typical one of mine to show how 400mm and f/6.3 can look...

Also, DPP isn't seen as the best converter out there in terms of its detail-rendering and sharpness capabilities: it's OK, but there are better to be had.

Keith Reeder said:

"but frankly I think your files simply need some more sharpening - see attached, which look fine in sharpness terms.

Click to expand...

Keith,

Your "tiddling" with the OP's pictures have dramatically improved them, particularly as you did not have access to the original files. Could you perhaps share with us what you have done and which software you used? I agree with you about the short-comings of Topaz In-Focus which has been covered on another thread, so don't imagine you used that!

Regards

Adrian

Surely, Adrian.

With these I did nothing special - I simply opened them in Photoshop CS 4 and applied a little bit of Smart Sharpen on a layer, then (on the Cardinal) erased the sharpening from the background to keep it smooth and clean.

Just my standard PP, really.

Funny though - I often use the "Reduce Blur" sharpening tool in Topaz DeNoise, because I've found that NR software often has really nice sharpening tools, and doing so on the Cardinal gives a nice result.

I could do a lot more with the RAW, and if I took my time (I'm just mucking about here) but as a "proof of concept" I think we can conclude that Jessica hasn't got much to worry about at all.

Good job Keith and an excellent reminder that sharpening is such an important part of the post processing procedure.

Just go easy Jessica because oversharpening is equally bad or worse than the orignal soft image

If you want to use jpegs straight from the camera its worth experimenting with the in camera processing via the picture styles settings. Be aware though that one set of parameters applied to for example natural will have a different effect than when used on for another example standard

I'm banging my head for not coming here first. :t: I've spent weeks trying to get answers but it never dawned on me to find people using the exact same lens. Doh! |8||

You guys have provided some excellent advice and I'm so excited to try once again. I shoot almost daily but decided to "Go back to the basics" with the feeder birds. I was getting way too much motion walking around in the woods and decided finding my errors would be a much wiser (less disappointing) approach.

I'm just in awe of the additional sharpening that Photo Shop accomplished. I hope I get to purchase the program soon. For now I'm stuck using the program that came with the 50D.

I can't thank you guys enough for sharing your knowledge. I've only had the lens a few months so all of your suggestions are greatly appreciated. I would love to take classes one day so I can finally understand how a camera really works, but for now trial and error is all I have.

Jessica,

you can do the same kind of sharpening with Paint Shop Pro, Photoshop Elements and even The Gimp (which is free and very capable, if a little "odd" as far as the interface is concerned).

The take-away point is here is that your pictures really are there or thereabouts already, and it'll only take a little nudge in the right direction to get them just where you want them.

I'm so excited to try once again

Click to expand...

Good!

a.dancy said:

Make sure that the diopter (view finder) is correctly set for your eyes.

Click to expand...

Dancy...your post is so very informative and your pictures are just awesome. That's what I'm trying to achieve!

Sorry for my ignorance, but in the above statement are you referring to the LCD screen or the viewfinder eyepiece? I ask because my eyes are most assuredly going bad. Sad shame for me... my eyes have always been excellent (my buddies called me hawkeye whenever we would 22LR plink) |^|

I use the viewfinder eyepiece. It's just a habit that I've been unable to break since owning a 35mm film camera for years. I hate the LCD screens, except when viewing my work that is. I have a lot of trouble seeing the LCD screen without putting on my reading glasses. It's a huge pain for me. I had to buy glasses two years ago and I absolutely hate them.

Keith Reeder said:

Jessica,
you can do the same kind of sharpening with Paint Shop Pro, Photoshop Elements and even The Gimp (which is free and very capable, if a little "odd" as far as the interface is concerned).

Click to expand...

Thank you Keith!
I have PSP! I've used it for your years with web design but never with my photos...other than resizing I should say.

gergrd said:

5) I stopped taking bird shots on feeders - no matter how sharp they were, the feeder never looked good to me. Some folks set up a natural looking perch next to their feeder, some locate their feeders near to trees / foliage and take shots there.

Click to expand...

That's what I do when my practice is done at home. All of the photos in this gallery ---> Click here are staged in or around the feeder. (Note: The gallery is large so dial-up users may have a difficult time viewing)

The 1-400 is a great lens. Using a tripod, and monitoring shutter speed at long focal lengths is very important. Even with a tripod, the old reciprocal rule should still apply ie 1/400 @ 400mm. Since you use a crop camera when your lens is fully extended your shutter speed would be 1/640 sec.

mrmarklin said:

Using a tripod... at long focal lengths is very important.

Click to expand...

No, it really isn't.

I've never used a tripod with the 100-400, never will, and I have zero problem getting sharp-as-you-like images.

I can't think of a lens better designed for hand-holding.

Should we dare mention micro AF adjustment for the camera and lens

Robert L Jarvis said:

Should we dare mention micro AF adjustment for the camera and lens

Click to expand...

I think not....one step at a time and move with caution I think is the motto that rules the day:t:

Keith Reeder said:

No, it really isn't.

I've never used a tripod with the 100-400, never will, and I have zero problem getting sharp-as-you-like images.

I can't think of a lens better designed for hand-holding.

Click to expand...

I think it depends upon the individual and how slow the shutter speed is that you are working with. I have had some amazingly sharp images at extremely slow shutter speeds but I have also managed to take a lot that were utterly dreadful. The problem is, is that I take my 100-400 out because I may think I don't need a tripod or because carrying a tripod is inconvenient but even Canon advises that a tripod should give you more returns than using IS. When I have been fortunate to have a tripod with me and used it I was always glad I did.

AD

Robert L Jarvis said:

Should we dare mention micro AF adjustment for the camera and lens

Click to expand...

I agree...Go easy on the camera virgin.

a.dancy said:

I am referring to the tiny viewfinder that we all use to look through the lens. Next to it there should be a little dial that you can adjust.

Click to expand...

Yes, I see the dial and yes, I'm afraid to touch it. |:S|

I wish I could have spent more time playing today but I had a pile of work to do. I did manage to get a few shots but nothing to brag about...just back at the feeder. I tried to incorporate many of your suggestions. The photos linked below were taken at:

1/800, f8, changed from Evaluative Metering to Spot, ISO 200-800 (One was later in the day so I bumped it up), AI Servo (which I always use), and I also changed the AF Point selection from auto to center point.

I wish I could have practiced more, but here are five of the best in today's group. Click Here.

I think better lighting will definitely help. It's just been so gloomy. And as far as a tripod...I hate them. I'm using one to practice but generally I never even get it out of the trunk of my car.