Great new stuff from Zeiss (1 Viewer)

dalat · Nov 8, 2013

mjensen6577 said:
"I'd love to give you insider info on what is coming in 2014, but I really am obligated to keep corporate confidentiality. Let's just say that for the last 2 years, we have been working very hard at transforming our portfolio. We will have new product coming next year, just like we did for the last 2 years. January 1 is when we launch mostly American key products and March at the European IWA show normally revolves around more European key products. We know what categories we are missing for each market segment regarding binos and scopes that the market is asking for and these are on our radar screen, but I just cant say when these will come. The good news is that 2014 is only 7 weeks away. ;-) Sorry for being vague"

Here is the food for speculation given by our BF Zeiss rep.

So what's really coming next year?

A few things are pretty obvious:
- small (x32) Terras and big (15x) Conquests for the Americans in January
- big HTs for the European hunters in March

The main remaining question is: When will they give us the new "Best all-round birding binocular in the world" (8x32 HT)?

And what would be those Zeiss scopes the markets are asking for?

A Conquest scope line? A new photoscope?

CSG · Nov 8, 2013

I keep hearing the 8x32 FL's will be around for awhile but you know how great 8x32 HT's would be!

Zeiss has always had great optics but there were other issues people griped about (like CS). However, the company seems to have been reborn and the products they're producing now along with a new and superlative effort at CS makes them my personal top gun optical company these days (as my collection of four Zeiss bins through their product range attests too).

mjensen6577 · Nov 9, 2013

dalat said:
Here is the food for speculation given by our BF Zeiss rep.

So what's really coming next year?

A few things are pretty obvious:
- small (x32) Terras and big (15x) Conquests for the Americans in January
- big HTs for the European hunters in March

The main remaining question is: When will they give us the new "Best all-round birding binocular in the world" (8x32 HT)?

And what would be those Zeiss scopes the markets are asking for?

A Conquest scope line? A new photoscope?

I guess it's not nice to drive speculation like that so let me clarify a little. "Just can't say when it will come" was intended to mean what year, not what month.

and, yes, 2014 we will see another taste of new products, but our plan by market spans over a 5 year stretch, not all the same year. By scopes I meant what customers are asking for in riflescopes and spotting scopes, so our breadth of what we try to bring to market is a lot to choose from, and sometimes we miss a full year or 2 or 3. Us, like all optics companies bring big new products only every few years since the investment is so high so a lot of Alpha products in a short time isn't possible. Anyway, thought clarification would help.

Holger Merlitz · Nov 9, 2013

dalat said:
Here is the food for speculation given by our BF Zeiss rep.

So what's really coming next year?

A few things are pretty obvious:
- small (x32) Terras and big (15x) Conquests for the Americans in January
- big HTs for the European hunters in March

The main remaining question is: When will they give us the new "Best all-round birding binocular in the world" (8x32 HT)?

And what would be those Zeiss scopes the markets are asking for?

A Conquest scope line? A new photoscope?

I guess the "HT"-tag refers essentially to the glass material used for the Abbe-Koenig prisms (even though Zeiss may not express it that way). Since the 8x32 comes with Schmidt-Pechan prisms, for which a similarly effective HT-glass is absent, and since a change to Abbe-Koenig prisms would make such a binocular somewhat bulky, I assume there will be no reincarnation of the 8x32 (or 10x32) in form of a "HT".

The 8x32 Victory FL is a very good binocular and it is still competitive. Some incremental improvements will possibly include a more aggressive field-flattening, and a higher transmission towards the long-wavelength end of the spectrum, which would increase the color saturation of the image.

Cheers,
Holger

dalat · Nov 9, 2013

mjensen6577 said:
I guess it's not nice to drive speculation like that so let me clarify a little.

Sorry Mike, just couldn't resist. It usually takes much less to trigger pages of speculations.

Sagittarius · Nov 10, 2013

Like I already mentioned in previous posts, would love to see Victory HT Binoculars in 12x50, 15x56 (to compete with Swarovski and Leica), plus a Spotting Scope with HT glass! :t:

Hermann · Nov 10, 2013

Sagittarius said:
Like I already mentioned in previous posts, would love to see Victory HT Binoculars in 12x50, 15x56 (to compete with Swarovski and Leica), plus a Spotting Scope with HT glass! :t:

Given that Zeiss doesn't use AK-prims in their scopes you'll be in for a *long* wait ...

Hermann

Troubador · Nov 10, 2013

Hermann said:
Given that Zeiss doesn't use AK-prims in their scopes you'll be in for a *long* wait ...

Hermann

But there is a lot of glass in there. Add it all up and perhaps HT glass would be useful.

Lee

brocknroller · Nov 10, 2013

Holger Merlitz said:
I guess the "HT"-tag refers essentially to the glass material used for the Abbe-Koenig prisms (even though Zeiss may not express it that way). Since the 8x32 comes with Schmidt-Pechan prisms, for which a similarly effective HT-glass is absent, and since a change to Abbe-Koenig prisms would make such a binocular somewhat bulky, I assume there will be no reincarnation of the 8x32 (or 10x32) in form of a "HT".

The 8x32 Victory FL is a very good binocular and it is still competitive. Some incremental improvements will possibly include a more aggressive field-flattening, and a higher transmission towards the long-wavelength end of the spectrum, which would increase the color saturation of the image.

Cheers,
Holger

Holger,

Why can't "HT" glass be used to make S-P prisms?

Brock

Hermann · Nov 10, 2013

brocknroller said:
Holger,

Why can't "HT" glass be used to make S-P prisms?

Wrong refraction index. That has all been discussed here before. Check Holger's postings.

Hermann

Holger Merlitz · Nov 11, 2013

Hermann said:
Wrong refraction index. That has all been discussed here before. Check Holger's postings.

Hermann

Right - to be precise: SP-prisms require a high index glass like BaK4, but the BaK4-HT is, in the visible range, hardly superior to the conventional BaK4, only its outermost short wavelength end offers superior transmission. So, whether or not HT is implemented in SP-prisms, there is hardly any difference. The AK, however, can use lower index glass, and e.g. the BK7-HT is in fact superior to the BK7 over most areas of the visible spectrum. That is why "HT" is kind of connected with binoculars that use AK-prisms.

Cheers,
Holger

henry link · Nov 11, 2013

Even replacing BK7 with BK7HT does not make very much difference in transmittance, as you can see in the chart below. If Schott N-BK7HT is substituted for Schott N-BK7 in an Abbe-Konig prism the increase in transmittance through 100mm of prism glass is mostly around 1-1.2% through the visible spectrum.

Substituting HT glass in the thin lenses of a binocular would make even less difference, especially since only a few elements are likely to be candidates for one of the few HT glass types introduced so far.

james holdsworth · Nov 11, 2013

So, does the HT use BaK-7 glass in the prisms?

Sagittarius · Nov 11, 2013

Hermann said:
Given that Zeiss doesn't use AK-prims in their scopes you'll be in for a *long* wait ...

Hermann

Didn't know that; thanks for the information.
Looks like a Swarovski STX 30x70x95 will definitely be in my future in that case!
I emailed Zeiss about a future Spotting Scope with HT glass earlier this year and they didn't mention it was not a possibility. :-C
They just said there were no immediate plans to offer one with HT glass.
I'm now somewhat surprised they didn't tell me it wasn't a possibility like you did. :h?:

Holger Merlitz · Nov 11, 2013

james holdsworth said:
So, does the HT use BaK-7 glass in the prisms?

All I know is that the AK system would function when using a glass with an index similar to BK7, i.e. it does not rely on a particularly high index such as the Porro or the SP does. Whatever Zeiss is using for their AK prisms - I don't know.

Cheers,
Holger

Holger Merlitz · Nov 11, 2013

henry link said:
Even replacing BK7 with BK7HT does not make very much difference in transmittance, as you can see in the chart below. If Schott N-BK7HT is substituted for Schott N-BK7 in an Abbe-Konig prism the increase in transmittance through 100mm of prism glass is mostly around 1-1.2% through the visible spectrum.

Substituting HT glass in the thin lenses of a binocular would make even less difference, especially since only a few elements are likely to be candidates for one of the few HT glass types introduced so far.

Exactly, the gain is limited, even with BK7-HT. So when I heard the announcement of Zeiss about their new HT binoculars, I regarded the "HT" a marketing-gag rather than actual improvement. Well, the user reports seem to support the claim that the new binoculars are significantly brighter, so perhaps there is a combination of higher transmission glass, improved coatings and stray-light protection?

Cheers,
Holger

henry link · Nov 11, 2013

james holdsworth said:
So, does the HT use BaK-7 glass in the prisms?

The front prism of an AK in an f/4 binocular could probably use BK-7 and still achieve TIR, but I'm doubtful about the back prism where the angles are not as favorable. Zeiss FL and HT models with AK prisms appear to use objectives considerably faster than f/4, so I'm not certain BK-7 could be used for either prism in those models. Whatever prism glass Zeiss has chosen it obviously has a high enough index for TIR within the context of the optics.

The Zeiss scopes could easily use BK-7, regardless of prism type, since their objectives are well above f/5.

Bencw · Nov 11, 2013

Holger Merlitz said:
Right - to be precise: SP-prisms require a high index glass like BaK4, but the BaK4-HT is, in the visible range, hardly superior to the conventional BaK4, only its outermost short wavelength end offers superior transmission. So, whether or not HT is implemented in SP-prisms, there is hardly any difference. The AK, however, can use lower index glass, and e.g. the BK7-HT is in fact superior to the BK7 over most areas of the visible spectrum. That is why "HT" is kind of connected with binoculars that use AK-prisms.

Cheers,
Holger

Hi
Not being expert on this, apologies if it might be a silly question, but would the same about HT glass apply to the Uppendahl prism which enabled leica to make the early trinovid so compact? I read somewhere, I think, that is not used as it was too complex and expensive?

Ben

Troubador · Nov 11, 2013

Bencw said:
Hi
Not being expert on this, apologies if it might be a silly question, but would the same about HT glass apply to the Uppendahl prism which enabled leica to make the early trinovid so compact? I read somewhere, I think, that is not used as it was too complex and expensive?

Ben

Hi Ben

Not sure about the parallel you are drawing between High Transmission glass and Uppendahl prisms.

However, the problem with the Uppendahl prism is that it wasn't one prism at all but a nest of 3. Porro, Schmidt-Pechan and Abbe-Koenigs are used in nests of 2. You can guess where this is going. It costs more to manufacture, securely locate and adjust 3 prisms than 2. So Uppys flourished for a time but manufacturers decided the extra cost/complication didn't bring any significant advantage.

Lee

Bencw · Nov 11, 2013

Troubador said:
Hi Ben

Not sure about the parallel you are drawing between High Transmission glass and Uppendahl prisms.

Uppys flourished for a time but manufacturers decided the extra cost/complication didn't bring any significant advantage.

Lee

Thanks Lee,

I did not know about the those differences, I had read that it was a cost issue somewhere, I think on a review singing the praises for those old trinovids. But as it was mentioned above that HT is no benefit in SP prisms due to wrong refraction index, I just wondered if the same would apply to Uppendhals, or if new HT glass would make enough difference in the uppendhal set up to make the extra cost/complication worth it now.

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