[Amarillo]

After spending a day in this area at the weekend, it struck me that the population of kites must be nearing saturation point in the core reintroduction area. I can't think of anywhere in the world that supports such a density of a raptor species.

Although they have obviously spread, there is still a lot of suitable habitat nearby eg around Oxford where they haven't yet properly colonised.

What do people think will happen over the next few years? Will they suddenly start dispersing as the population gets too big?

Thoughts?

[Marcus Conway - ebirder]

Its the same here in Yorkshire. I think they are a populus specied given the lack of other predators after years of persecution they seem to be prolific. Maybe the local corvird and other carrion feeders will decline?

[lockbreeze926]

Originally Posted by Amarillo

it struck me that the population of kites must be nearing saturation point in the core reintroduction area.

What do people think will happen over the next few years? Will they suddenly start dispersing as the population gets too big?

You would think they must be reaching max density, but I sort-of thought that some years ago and 'twas not so.

Black Kites congregate in huge numbers elsewhere, so maybe there was effectively an empty ecological niche in the UK for medium-sized raptor/scavengers, which have the capacity to build huge populations, provided there is sufficient food. In the absence of Black Kites, Reds adapt to fill the gap?

[boddie]

Why haven't buzzards filled that gap, if there was one?

[lockbreeze926]

Originally Posted by boddie

Why haven't buzzards filled that gap, if there was one?

Haven't the faintest clue - I was speculating about an unusually dense raptor population in a land that is very sparsely raptored.

[boddie]

My question was slightly rhetorical. One would assume that if there was a niche in the food chain for a scavenging raptor then buzzards would fit the bill perfectly. I am always confused when red kites do SO well in an area that would appear to be just as good for buzzards. Why wouldn't they have populated the area before red kites were intoduced, clearly there is enough food around.

[Himalaya]

you can literally get hundreds of kites in cities of india and pakistan but remember theres less of a garbage disposal system there.

would be interesting to note what effect red kites had on other birds ie corvids, buzzards and nestig birds

[rjb25073]

Originally Posted by Amarillo

After spending a day in this area at the weekend, it struck me that the population of kites must be nearing saturation point in the core reintroduction area. I can't think of anywhere in the world that supports such a density of a raptor species.

Although they have obviously spread, there is still a lot of suitable habitat nearby eg around Oxford where they haven't yet properly colonised.

What do people think will happen over the next few years? Will they suddenly start dispersing as the population gets too big?

Thoughts?

I've lived near Amersham/Chorleywood for 4 years (ca 20 miles ? from Stokenchurch) and although I've no hard evidence I'd say they've got significantly commoner over my house. We used to see the odd one occasionally and now see them most days sometimes in pairs. They're nowhere near as common as say Stokenchurch or High Wycombe but on the way up so I'd guess they're dispersing already.

Makes my day when I see one from the kitchen window :-)
Richard

[craigthirlwell]

In spain winter red kite roosts have been reported of 400+, there is nothing to stop them roosting in such numbers in Britain.
Come spring/summer kites become territorial and will spread from the winter roosting area. This will (and has) happened with all Red Kite re-introduction programs.
There is some thought that people feeding the Kites has slowed down the ‘spreading’ of the population. Because of this people are now asked not to put out meat scraps for the birds.
Personally I don’t see a problem with this and feel that this supplementary feeding has increased the success of the re-introductions.

[FergusJBend]

I think its true to say that Common Buzzard is far mor reliant on live prey than Red Kite. Otherwise the two species might not be so extensively sympatric as they appear to be.

[joannec]

Interesting question Amarillo and something that I've wondered about too.

Originally Posted by lockbreeze926

..........so maybe there was effectively an empty ecological niche in the UK for medium-sized raptor/scavengers, which have the capacity to build huge populations, provided there is sufficient food. In the absence of Black Kites, Reds adapt to fill the gap?

Originally Posted by boddie

.... One would assume that if there was a niche in the food chain for a scavenging raptor then buzzards would fit the bill perfectly. I am always confused when red kites do SO well in an area that would appear to be just as good for buzzards. Why wouldn't they have populated the area before red kites were intoduced, clearly there is enough food around.

Originally Posted by craigthirlwell

There is some thought that people feeding the Kites has slowed down the ‘spreading’ of the population. Because of this people are now asked not to put out meat scraps for the birds.
Personally I don’t see a problem with this and feel that this supplementary feeding has increased the success of the re-introductions.

I don't often hear this cited but it seems to me that roadkill could provide the necessary food supply for red kites. As scavengers this could be the niche that they are finding. In most areas it's the corvids that eat the roadkill carrion but I wondered if this is what's enabling the RKs to do so well in the areas where they are in large numbers.

I don't often see them but they are beginning to move into my part of East Sussex from the west. It would be interesting to know if they are seen feeding on road kill in the areas where they are common. They are not very fast fliers so they would have to get out of the way of fast traffic or dead kites would become roadkill too and we would be seening them. I haven't heard that large numbers of RKs are becoming road casualties.

Is there any evidence that RKs are feeding on roadkill?

Joanne

[Helen O]

The Chilterns kites, contrary to what some people believe, have spread to other counties away from the core area. For obvious reasons, we don't give out the locations of nests, etc.

At this time of the year, kites will tend to congregate. They are a gregarious bird by nature, hence the annual comments by people when they visit the core area about just how many kites are around.

However, they are not territorial, except within their nesting area. They also live quite happily with the common buzzards. They will, and do, nest quite close to each other. The occasional scuffle does occur, but apart from these, they tolerate each other quite well.

A set of criteria, as set out by the IUCN must be met, prior to the reintroduction. The Chilterns met this criteria, hence the locatioin of choice for the first reintroduction in England (one also took place at the same time on the Black Isle, Scotland).

Roadkill is a common source of food for the kites. The Chilterns does provide a lot of roadkill, with the small country lanes, and large wildlife population. Roadkill of deer (particularly muntjac), rabbits, pheasants, etc are a daily occurance, and the kites (as well as the corvids and buzzards) help to keep the roads clean.

Several kites reported to me have been found on the motorway, although in general the numbers of kites killed by traffic is fortunately kept quite low. Considering the size of the kite, they are surprisingly agile, and more often than not they do manage to fly off the roadkill in time.

Winter roosts here in the Chilterns do have good numbers of 100+ birds.

If anyone does find a dead red kite (within the Chilterns area) please contact me as soon as possible. (Details on the website below). Thanks.

[Himalaya]

i have seen black kites diving for food on a busy road with no problems whatsoever.

Originally Posted by joannechattaway

Interesting question Amarillo and something that I've wondered about too.







I don't often hear this cited but it seems to me that roadkill could provide the necessary food supply for red kites. As scavengers this could be the niche that they are finding. In most areas it's the corvids that eat the roadkill carrion but I wondered if this is what's enabling the RKs to do so well in the areas where they are in large numbers.

I don't often see them but they are beginning to move into my part of East Sussex from the west. It would be interesting to know if they are seen feeding on road kill in the areas where they are common. They are not very fast fliers so they would have to get out of the way of fast traffic or dead kites would become roadkill too and we would be seening them. I haven't heard that large numbers of RKs are becoming road casualties.

Is there any evidence that RKs are feeding on roadkill?

Joanne