Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
Magnifying the passion for nature. Zeiss Victory Harpia 95. New!

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old Friday 23rd November 2007, 18:23   #1
AJDH
Registered User
 
AJDH's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Work Saudi Arabia Home Bolton England
Posts: 4,174
Bahrain, goose

Help is required in making a definite ID of this goose. We don't get many geese in Bahrain and we think we have narrowed this down to two possibilities but would like expert opinion before recording the sighting.

Thanks.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	AJ0_9251_800w.jpg
Views:	1557
Size:	79.0 KB
ID:	114758  Click image for larger version

Name:	AJ0_9258_800w.jpg
Views:	1533
Size:	121.1 KB
ID:	114759  Click image for larger version

Name:	AJ0_9260_800w.jpg
Views:	1453
Size:	69.9 KB
ID:	114760  
AJDH is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2007 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 23rd November 2007, 18:26   #2
gerdwichers8
Registered User
 
gerdwichers8's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 1,729
Hello Adrian

This is a juvenile White-fronted Goose
gerdwichers8 is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2007 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 23rd November 2007, 18:28   #3
AJDH
Registered User
 
AJDH's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Work Saudi Arabia Home Bolton England
Posts: 4,174
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerdwichers8 View Post
Hello Adrian

This is a juvenile White-fronted Goose
Thanks, I think this may be a rare bird for these parts.
AJDH is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2007 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 24th November 2007, 11:45   #4
Hotspur
James Spencer
 
Hotspur's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Nafferton, East Yorkshire
Posts: 6,577
Blog Entries: 19
Is this not a Bean Goose? Am prepared to be shot down but it looks proportionally wrong for WFG and has no belly bands.
__________________
Idiocy Birding
Tophill Low Ringing
My Flickr
Last Yorks: Pacific Golden Plover (315)
Hotspur is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2010 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 24th November 2007, 12:05   #5
bitterntwisted
Graham Howard Shortt
 
bitterntwisted's Avatar

 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
Posts: 4,843
If juv albifrons, why does it not have a dark nail to the bill?
bitterntwisted is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2007 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 24th November 2007, 12:11   #6
Twite
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Gone: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,068
Hi.

Juv. White-fronted Goose albifrons. juvs. don't have belly bands, white base to bill hasn't developed yet. Bean Goose has more extensive dark markings on bill.

Twite.
Twite is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2007 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 24th November 2007, 12:15   #7
Hotspur
James Spencer
 
Hotspur's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Nafferton, East Yorkshire
Posts: 6,577
Blog Entries: 19
Just had a look through my books and i agree the plumage looksgood for WFG, just feels a bit long necked.
__________________
Idiocy Birding
Tophill Low Ringing
My Flickr
Last Yorks: Pacific Golden Plover (315)
Hotspur is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2010 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 24th November 2007, 12:19   #8
Twite
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Gone: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotspur View Post
Just had a look through my books and i agree the plumage looksgood for WFG, just feels a bit long necked.
Hi.

It looks long necked because it is alert, very alert as the 3rd. pic shows.

Twite.
Twite is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2007 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 24th November 2007, 12:27   #9
AJDH
Registered User
 
AJDH's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Work Saudi Arabia Home Bolton England
Posts: 4,174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twite View Post
It looks long necked because it is alert, very alert as the 3rd. pic shows.

Twite.
That's because it had just seen Howard, who was with me.
AJDH is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2007 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 24th November 2007, 13:47   #10
lostinjapan
Registered User
 
lostinjapan's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Alderton, Suffolk
Posts: 3,289
Blog Entries: 13
Think we also have to point out, that even in juvenile plumage Bean Geese have orange and not pink bills...

Wonder if there has been a small influx of geese into that part of the Middle East, as Shah also has a pic of a White-fronted Goose (though with the size of it's bill I thought Greylag at first) on another thread.

Sean
lostinjapan is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 24th November 2007, 13:58   #11
Illapa
Registered User
 
Illapa's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Perú
Posts: 716
I think it is Bean goose also, by the color of the beak and legs.
Greetings
__________________
Illapa Perú. Tours and Birding Expeditions,
www.perubirdingexpeditions.com
Illapa is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 24th November 2007, 14:41   #12
AJDH
Registered User
 
AJDH's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Work Saudi Arabia Home Bolton England
Posts: 4,174
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinjapan View Post
Think we also have to point out, that even in juvenile plumage Bean Geese have orange and not pink bills...

Wonder if there has been a small influx of geese into that part of the Middle East, as Shah also has a pic of a White-fronted Goose (though with the size of it's bill I thought Greylag at first) on another thread.

Sean
We saw three of what we thought were greylag overfly last week. If this is indeed a white-fronted goose, it's only the second record for Bahrain.
AJDH is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2007 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 24th November 2007, 15:30   #13
StuartReeves
Local rarity
 
StuartReeves's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Suffolk, UK
Posts: 3,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinjapan View Post
Wonder if there has been a small influx of geese into that part of the Middle East, as Shah also has a pic of a White-fronted Goose (though with the size of it's bill I thought Greylag at first) on another thread.

Sean
I'm glad you said that about Shah's Goose Sean, as my initial reaction was Greylag too. Shah's bird is here: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread....95#post1060995 . To my eye Adrian's bird is a much more straightforward juvenile Whitefront.

Stuart
StuartReeves is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 24th November 2007, 15:35   #14
lostinjapan
Registered User
 
lostinjapan's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Alderton, Suffolk
Posts: 3,289
Blog Entries: 13
Just to clarify..I think this is an immature White-fronted Goose. 'Albifrons' is the only likely race.

Greylag can be ruled out on the tail pattern..would show more white on the tail and inner tail band. The wings and rump would be much paler too.

As I already stated, a Bean Goose adult or immature would have an orange bill and this bird has a pink bill. There would also be more black at the base of the bill and tip (as already stated by others).

In flight the mantle/rump looks dark, good for White-fronted, as they are usually a little pale and browner in Bean.

Also seems to have white primary shafts, which is good for White-fronted, whereas Bean doesn't. This bird also appears to have very pale primary-coverts, which is another feature of White-fronted.

Don't suppose you got any pics of the 3 suspected Greylags?

Sean
lostinjapan is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 24th November 2007, 16:05   #15
AJDH
Registered User
 
AJDH's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Work Saudi Arabia Home Bolton England
Posts: 4,174
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinjapan View Post
Don't suppose you got any pics of the 3 suspected Greylags?

Sean
Sorry Sean, I could only watch through my bins as they were too far away.
AJDH is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2007 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 24th November 2007, 17:13   #16
Howard King
Registered Member

 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,588
juhani.kyyro@sci.fi www.virtual-bird.com GOT PICTURES of the Greylag for once he was quicker than AJ. If you look also at the pictures I took of the White Fronted on our web pages (see the following) http://www.hawar-islands.com/blog/id_stub.php things will become clear
PS Adrian was with me
Howard King is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 24th November 2007, 17:18   #17
Howard King
Registered Member

 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,588
Out of interest I also today recieved this message from Nick Moran in the UAE

Hi Howard

This is a 100% Greater White-fronted Goose, juvenile as you say. Blackish bill tip, rather dark head / neck and orange legs (visible clearly in the flight shot) are amongst the good features for separating from 'Lags'.

Incidentally, we are in the middle of an influx of Greater White-fronted Geese here in the UAE - Oscar Campbell and I found groups of 2 and 5 individuals at two locations near Abu Dhabi today, having found 2 on the East Coast (Dibba) last weekend. Like you, Greylags are also the most frequently seen grey goose here. We did see an unusually large flock of that species (21) a week or so back too, so it would appear that there are higher than usual numbers of geese reaching this far south. Additionally, 10 Ruddy Shelduck have been recorded to date in the UAE this autumn, after 3 blank years.

Cheers
Nick
Howard King is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 24th November 2007, 17:37   #18
AJDH
Registered User
 
AJDH's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Work Saudi Arabia Home Bolton England
Posts: 4,174
Here's a direct link to Juhani's picture.

http://www.virtual-bird.com/replace....ser/Anser.data
AJDH is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2007 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 24th November 2007, 17:39   #19
Colin
Axeman (Retired)
 
Colin's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In an old people's home in Herefordshire(UK)
Posts: 2,605
Blog Entries: 29
Are the two pictures of the bird on the ground of the same bird? To me the bill colour is different, on the first (left hand) picture it appears very pink, in fact quite light and in the next picture it appears orange. The flight pic rules out Greylag with the lack of lightness in the wings etc as mentioned above. Bean Goose and Pink-footed can be ruled out by the lack of darkness near the base of the bill in a juvenile bird which this is and the bird is too big and has no eye ring so Lesser White-front can be dismissed. This leaves juvenile White-fronted Goose but which race. The most likely in terms of distribution would be albifrons but the colour of the bill is not clear in my opinion.
__________________
Colin
Colin is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2007 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 24th November 2007, 17:41   #20
Colin
Axeman (Retired)
 
Colin's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In an old people's home in Herefordshire(UK)
Posts: 2,605
Blog Entries: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJDH View Post
Here's a direct link to Juhani's picture.

http://www.virtual-bird.com/replace....ser/Anser.data
The amount of lightness on the upperwing of the trailing bird and the apparent largeness of the bill even at that long range suggests Greylag Goose to me.
__________________
Colin
Colin is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2007 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 24th November 2007, 18:50   #21
Howard King
Registered Member

 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,588
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJDH View Post
Here's a direct link to Juhani's picture.

http://www.virtual-bird.com/replace....ser/Anser.data
Wrong link - This is not the picture taken at Badaan
Howard King is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 24th November 2007, 19:31   #22
AJDH
Registered User
 
AJDH's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Work Saudi Arabia Home Bolton England
Posts: 4,174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin View Post
Are the two pictures of the bird on the ground of the same bird? To me the bill colour is different, on the first (left hand) picture it appears very pink, in fact quite light and in the next picture it appears orange. The flight pic rules out Greylag with the lack of lightness in the wings etc as mentioned above. Bean Goose and Pink-footed can be ruled out by the lack of darkness near the base of the bill in a juvenile bird which this is and the bird is too big and has no eye ring so Lesser White-front can be dismissed. This leaves juvenile White-fronted Goose but which race. The most likely in terms of distribution would be albifrons but the colour of the bill is not clear in my opinion.
All pictures are the same bird, the angle of the sun could affect the colours.
AJDH is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2007 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 24th November 2007, 19:32   #23
AJDH
Registered User
 
AJDH's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Work Saudi Arabia Home Bolton England
Posts: 4,174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard King View Post
Wrong link - This is not the picture taken at Badaan
Do you have the direct link, this is all I could find on Juhani's site?
AJDH is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2007 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 24th November 2007, 20:14   #24
JANJ
Registered User
 
JANJ's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 8,162
Also note the obvious white edgings to tertials and greater coverts on Bean:

http://www.tarsiger.com/images/SL/pe...tu_ansfab5.jpg

and compare with GWFG:

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?i...icture_id=8597

JanJ
JANJ is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 24th November 2007, 20:49   #25
bitterntwisted
Graham Howard Shortt
 
bitterntwisted's Avatar

 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
Posts: 4,843
No-one's answered my question as to why the original subject bird shows a pale nail. Howard says it has a "blackish bill tip", which I just can't see. To me it has a more adult-like white tip to the bill with, just possibly, a small smidgeon of black. It certainly doesn't have the classic black nail shown here...
http://www.birdguides.com/pictures/d...93&r=0&st=0&q=

Every other feature is, as many have said, consistent with 1st winter albifrons Whitefront and I don't want to deny that's what it is, just curious about this feature.

Thanks,
Graham
bitterntwisted is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2007 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need ID on two from Bahrain AJDH Butterflies and Moths ID 3 Friday 20th July 2007 12:07
Insects from Bahrain AJDH Insects, Dragonflies, Arachnids, Beetles & More 7 Monday 19th March 2007 09:27
Another Barnyard Goose-Or Greater White-fronted Goose. Essex CT. USA lvn600 Bird Identification Q&A 8 Monday 26th February 2007 05:57
Whinchat (?), Bahrain AJDH Bird Identification Q&A 6 Sunday 12th November 2006 17:17
My patch - Bahrain kyyroju Bahrain 0 Monday 20th March 2006 18:40

{googleads}

Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.24233699 seconds with 37 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 03:03.