green heron from Cuba (1 Viewer)

LECURU

FRANCE

• Dec 26, 2007

• #1

For american bird watchers (i'm french) :

Hello,
In a recent trip at Cuba, I saw green herons and take pictures of course. Someone can help him to say to me what sort of race they was : butorides virescens virescens or virescens maculata (bahamensis ?)

Thank you so much for yours answers

 

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Johnny1

Well-known member

• Dec 26, 2007

• #2

Butorides virescens is the race of Green Heron found in Cuba. Nice pic by the way.

 

LECURU

FRANCE

• Dec 27, 2007

• #3

green heron from Cuba : what the race

thank you for your answer Johnnie1, but I don't understand. According different field guides, virescens is a race of butorides striatus (found all over the tropical world) or a species with races like maculata, anthonyi ...

It's very important to know what's race he is ...

Thank you

 

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Johnny1

Well-known member

• Dec 27, 2007

• #4

I'm sorry Lecuru that is all the information I have, the books I have only give virescens, maybe someone else out there can answer your question?

 

LECURU

FRANCE

• Dec 28, 2007

• #5

green heron

for american birdwatchers, please help for ID green heron of Cuba :

virescens virescens or virescens maculata (bahamensis ?)

Thank you in advance for yours answers. Thank you too for the answers of johnny1

 

jc122463

Well-known member

• Dec 28, 2007

• #6

According the Clements (sixth edition), it appears to me that your bird would be Butorides v. virescens. bahamensis is only listed as occuring in the Bahamas while virescens is listed as "Central US and e Canada to Panama and Caribbean". The whole Butorides striata complex is really a huge mess though still. Then it depends on whether you choose to go by Clements or a different author....

Cheers,
Benji

 

Simon M

Well-known member

• Dec 28, 2007

• #7

Despite seeing them in Trinidad & Tobago, Texas, Peru and Kenya I'm also a little hazy on some of the details of the taxonomy and identification of the Green Heron group.
Howard & Moore (1991) List the following Subspecies:-

Butorides striatus anthonyi
SW USA, W Mexico

B.s.frazari
S Baja California

B.s.virescens
E. N.America, W Indes to Panama

B.s.bahamensis
Bahama Is.

B.s.striatus
E Panama to N Argentina, Bolivia
(Teated as B.striatus a seperate from B.virescens species by Blake 77 and Hilty 2003)

As far as I can see virescens is much more richly coloured on the neck and flanks than striatus. However, as the taxonomy of races of striatus across S.America, Africa and Asia I don't know whether any authorities recomend further splits. Certainly Fanshaw & Stevenson (Birds of East Africa) list Striated Heron as B.striatus which is the same as Little Heron in Robson's Birds of SE Asia.
No idea whether bahamensis looks any different to virescens, but it seems that in Cuba virescens is most likely.

 

LECURU

FRANCE

• Jan 1, 2008

• #8

thank you so much. your references are very good and definite. It appears therefore that my bird is virescens virescens, or the subspecies striatus virescens. It is really a nice bird

 

chowchilla

Well-known member

• Jan 1, 2008

• #9

LECURU said:

thank you so much. your references are very good and definite. It appears therefore that my bird is virescens virescens, or the subspecies striatus virescens. It is really a nice bird

Click to expand...

I saw one today.

They're pretty common birds here. I've no idea which subspecies it was, but for me the American birds are probably the prettiest being predominantly green and red as opposed to brown like the Aussie birds.

Here's a pic of one I photographed the other week on the esplanade. Notice how different it looks from the West Indian bird.

 

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Last edited: Jan 1, 2008

rob stoff

Well-known member

• Jan 1, 2008

• #10

chowchilla said:

I saw one today.

They're pretty common birds here. I've no idea which subspecies it was, but for me the American birds are probably the prettiest being predominantly green and red as opposed to brown like the Aussie birds.

Here's a pic of one I photographed the other week on the esplanade. Notice how different it looks from the West Indian bird.

Click to expand...

North American virescens are split from the rest now, several races of Striated Heron in Australia:

http://www.birdforum.net/opus/Stria...m_o__session=cad7d91ac032fa256317a31f6ac22988

Rob

 

chowchilla

Well-known member

• Jan 1, 2008

• #11

rob stoff said:

North American virescens are split from the rest now, several races of Striated Heron in Australia:

http://www.birdforum.net/opus/Stria...m_o__session=cad7d91ac032fa256317a31f6ac22988

Rob

Click to expand...

I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't further splits in the future. I've seen them in Central America, Africa and South East Asia too and they look so different every time as your link testifies.

 

Rasmus Boegh

BF member

• Jan 1, 2008

• #12

chowchilla said:

I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't further splits in the future. I've seen them in Central America, Africa and South East Asia too and they look so different every time as your link testifies.

Click to expand...

The situation is messy, but they hybridize freely just about everywhere they come into contact (there's even some known geneflow between nominate striatus and virescens). In fact, even the case for the visually highly distinctive Lava Heron is questionable. The one case where I suspect a split (per BSC) is a strong possibility is nominate striatus versus the remaining taxa from Europe, Asia, Africa & Australia. Of note that nominate striatus really isn't that morphologically different than certain "Old World" taxa, even if one would have to assume that they have been isolated from each other for a long time (hence suggesting that morphology is of relatively limited use for determining species limits within this genus).