[giorgosg]

Hello,

I am new in BF and into birding for about a year.

I am ready to buy my first scope. My uncle will buy it for me from Canada these days. I am going for a good ED large model. The opportunity to buy it from Canada has appeared now and also I believe I will save a lot of EURO'S since in Greece scopes are difficult to find and rather expensive (e.g. the ZEISS 85 goes for EUR 1.850-body only and zoom lense about EUR 450). Overall I see it as a long-term if not lifetime investment.

Although I don't have the chance to actually see and test spotting scopes I've screened out KOWA 883 and NIKON ED 82A for the following reasons:

1. KOWA 883 gets good reviews as I found out and I think will have better eye-relief for me (I wear glasses all time)
2. NIKON ED 82A looks like a best buy for the money though eye-relief might be a problem
3. The NIKON ED82A + zoom 25x-75x + s.o.c. will cost me CAD1.500 (about EUR 1.065)
4. The KOWA 883 + zoom 20-60 will cost me CAD 2.429 (EUR 1.700)
5. The ZEISS 85 was rejected - it costs about the same as the KOWA and SWARO ATS 80 HD rejected also since it goes for CAD 3.000 (EUR 2.100).

In conclusion do you believe that KOWA deserves the extra cash or I will do my birding perfectly with NIKON? (Without adding extra eyepieces since this will raise the cost to probably similar level to the KOWA).

I'm waiting for your opinions and I wish you all a Happy New Year!

George

[Sancho]

Hi George, welcome to BF and to Birding, I look forward to lots of news from you about birding in Greece! I think the cost issue speaks for itself....if you buy the Nikon, you'll have lots of cash left over for a tripod, and an extra fixed wide-angle eyepiece (I'd recommend 30x or 38x) as well. I have the Nikon ED82A, and I love it....the zoom eyepiece is wonderful, but the Field of View is a bit narrow...in other words, it's a bit like looking through a Keyhole! But with a fixed eyepiece as standard, it really is an amazing scope, and in my opinion, optically equal to anything out there! Best Wishes and Good Luck with your choice!

Addendum: I´ve never seen the Kowa 883, but I think reviews generally consider it to be the best there is out there. Just a thought, ´cos I don´t want to urge you towards Nikon if you can afford the Kowa!

[Pileatus]

Originally Posted by giorgosg

Hello,

I am new in BF and into birding for about a year.

I am ready to buy my first scope. My uncle will buy it for me from Canada these days. I am going for a good ED large model. The opportunity to buy it from Canada has appeared now and also I believe I will save a lot of EURO'S since in Greece scopes are difficult to find and rather expensive (e.g. the ZEISS 85 goes for EUR 1.850-body only and zoom lense about EUR 450). Overall I see it as a long-term if not lifetime investment.

Although I don't have the chance to actually see and test spotting scopes I've screened out KOWA 883 and NIKON ED 82A for the following reasons:

1. KOWA 883 gets good reviews as I found out and I think will have better eye-relief for me (I wear glasses all time)
2. NIKON ED 82A looks like a best buy for the money though eye-relief might be a problem
3. The NIKON ED82A + zoom 25x-75x + s.o.c. will cost me CAD1.500 (about EUR 1.065)
4. The KOWA 883 + zoom 20-60 will cost me CAD 2.429 (EUR 1.700)
5. The ZEISS 85 was rejected - it costs about the same as the KOWA and SWARO ATS 80 HD rejected also since it goes for CAD 3.000 (EUR 2.100).

In conclusion do you believe that KOWA deserves the extra cash or I will do my birding perfectly with NIKON? (Without adding extra eyepieces since this will raise the cost to probably similar level to the KOWA).

I'm waiting for your opinions and I wish you all a Happy New Year!

George

George,

I own and love the ED82 with fixed 30X and 50X eyepieces. The Nikon zoom is not acceptable if you wear eyeglasses! The Nikon zoom is very sharp, but it has lousy eye relief and a very narrow FOV.

John

[Tero]

Why not Pentax?
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=1107

The zoom eye pieces are hit and miss, but always a bit narrow. I liked my beginner scope with 20-60x zoom, 78mm scope, but never much used the 60x, only 50x or so.

[giorgosg]

Sancho, John and Tero thanks a lot for your suggestions.

I hope I'll manage to make a wise decision!

George

[J. Moore]

Hi George,

I recently went through a similar process and after returning two scopes (vortex skyline and Kowa 773), have settled on the 883 and am quite happy with it so far. I wear eyeglasses also and have had no desire to remove my glasses while using the 883. I considered the Nikon also, but decided against it because of the lack of eye relief (though I should add I have never actually used it -- just looked at the eye relief specifications and read reviews).

Given that they both weigh the same, the 883 has superior eye relief, and every review so far has found the 883 to have the best optics of any spotting scope out there (which is not to denigrate the optics of the Nikon in any way), I would say go with the 883 if you can afford it. As you say, it is an investment for a lifetime (or at least a decade or two).

Hope this helps,
Jim

P.S.: I see Tero suggests the Pentax 80 mm, which has also gotten some very good reviews. I decided against it because it is so heavy and large; there have also been suggestions of significant variations in optical quality from one Pentax to another, suggesting a need for improved quality control. But if weight and size are not issues, and you can find a good one, it might be an option.

[henry link]

If you can afford to wait a little while I've heard we may be seeing new scopes from Nikon this year, including a new zoom eyepiece with longer eye relief and a wider field. I'm hoping at least a prototype will be displayed at the US "Shot Show" in early February.

I'm also in your position. If I had to buy a scope today it would probably be the Kowa 883, but I want to see what Nikon have up their sleeves first.

[The Kerreran]

Originally Posted by John Traynor

The Nikon zoom is not acceptable if you wear eyeglasses!

Hi George,
I use the 25-75x zoom on my ED82, it is the easiest eyepiece to use I have ever looked through, and I wear glasses. What I'm saying is that everyone's eyes are different, only by looking through different scopes can you know what is truly best for you. I realise that's not easy for you, but if you can't get to optics retailers, or fairs, there are always other birders, who are usually only too happy to show off their stuff!

[giorgosg]

Thanks for the info. I'm still confused but I guess I'll go for the Kowa for the better E.R. with the zoom eyepiece.

However I see that many of you are rather satisfied with the performance of the Nikon scope. Probably the new NIKON models will be better but unfortunately I can't wait for them as Henry suggests. Still the solution of getting the Nikon + 2 eyepieces (zoom + 30x or 38x) looks as a great value!

Waiting for more suggestions, if any, and Happy New Year to all of you!!!

George

[J. Moore]

Originally Posted by giorgosg

Waiting for more suggestions, if any, and Happy New Year to all of you!!!

It is a tough decision. There seems to be a gap in the market between the low-priced scopes that have good optical quality at 20x, but fall short at 60x, and the top-of-the-line very high-priced scopes like Swarovski, Zeiss, Leica, and the new Kowas. The main intermediate price scopes with high optical quality I am aware of are the Nikon you mention and the Pentax already mentioned. But these have clear limitations for many because of eye relief and weight drawbacks.

Another option you can consider is the Kowa 773 which is compared with the 883 in a thread on the Kowa forum.

Jim

[Tero]

Do you really need 60x? 50x is all I need.

[SteveClifton]

Do you really need 60x? 50x is all I need.

Absolutely!! Personally I would use 60x, 70x, even 80x or more if there was a perceivable improvement in resolution. My own Swarovski can achieve 92x with a 5mm astro eyepiece, though it's arguable whether you see much more detail over the Swarovski zoom at 60x which is as much as anything to do with limitations of the scope's objective.

Modern top-class scopes like the Kowa 883 and Nikon ED82 can easily handle powers up to and well over 60x (assuming suitable eyepieces were available).

It may be rare and infrequent that such high powers are needed, but why limit yourself to 50x of you're after the best scope for your money?

[Robert / Seattle]

Originally Posted by SteveClifton

Absolutely!! Personally I would use 60x, 70x, even 80x or more if there was a perceivable improvement in resolution. My own Swarovski can achieve 92x with a 5mm astro eyepiece, though it's arguable whether you see much more detail over the Swarovski zoom at 60x which is as much as anything to do with limitations of the scope's objective.

Modern top-class scopes like the Kowa 883 and Nikon ED82 can easily handle powers up to and well over 60x (assuming suitable eyepieces were available).

It may be rare and infrequent that such high powers are needed, but why limit yourself to 50x of you're after the best scope for your money?

I quite agree. It was with great satisfaction that a Mountain Goat, some 4 miles distant on the north slope of Mt. Rainier, was brought into great definition with my Nikon 82ED and 25-75mm zoom eyepiece. You don't always need it, but when you do it's there.

[Edward woodwood]

Originally Posted by giorgosg

2. NIKON ED 82A looks like a best buy for the money though eye-relief might be a problem

In conclusion do you believe that KOWA deserves the extra cash or I will do my birding perfectly with NIKON?

George

the Nikon ED82 is certainly the best value for money and is fantastic (I don't have one by the way!) - more than good enough for any birding you will do.

I wouldn't pay that kind of money for a scope but other people would. You won't find any more birds with a more expensive scope.

you could buy the Nikon ED82 and an ED50 (large scopes are a pain to lug around all day and useless if you ever decide to travel to the tropics) and still have some change left over compared with the Kowa - or get a slightly smaller scope like a 60-66mm objective - much more portable?

Whichever you choose, if you looked thru each on 20x wide you would be overjoyed at the view.

good luck

[nexstarneil]

I've had an 82A for a few months now and it is stunning. I tested it literally alongside all the so called 'top' scopes Zeiss 85, Swaro 80 and both of the new Kowa fluorites and I think it's optically at least as good as any of them.
I have the 38x and the 20-75 zoom. I use the 38x most of the time and it is a joy to set the scope up (as I did yesterday) and spend an hour scouring my local flood meadow for geese, wigeon, gulls, winter thrushes etc and a couple of nice foxes. The 82A is tack sharp and the colours are so true to life that I now find I lose myself when I set about grilling individual birds, the experience is really that good. The depth of field is narrow so you have to be on the focus all the time when scanning but the end result is fabulous. I refuse to spend money on things just because they have a reputation but to be quite honest I would have willingly spent £1,600 on the top Kowa if I had really thought it was the best, well I didn't and I didn't, if you follow.

[EagleEyed]

Hi George,

If eye-relief, field-of-view, and eyeglass wear are not possible issues then the 25x-75x zoom of the Nikon beats the 20x-60x zoom of the Kowa (and also anyone else's zoom for pure perfomance). Granted the 61-75x is not always usable but it is surprising how often it is!

Kowa only provides their 20x-60x Zoom, a 30x Wide, and the 25x Long Eye Relief (LER) eyepieces (possibly redundant or a non-choice), unless they've recently added some eyepieces to the 883 line.

Nikon offers the 30x, 38x, 50x, and 75x Wide Eyepieces, and the 25x-75x Zoom for the 82.

I have the Nikon 30x Wide, the 50x Wide, and the 25x-75x Zoom. I find the 61-75x range to be invaluable most of the time, after using this scope I would not want to live without the 61-75x range.

I only paid $1079 US for the ED82A, case, and the zoom new, I also purchased the ED50A for $399 US, and share eyepieces between the two scopes. I find I usually always carry the 82 as the view is much superior to the 50, a 50 cannot beat or equal an 82! However, for a 50mm objective size the ED50A cannot be beat!

The super premium priced scopes are very nice and all have some very strong points, but the price/performance mix the Nikon offers can't be beat, only the eye-relief, field-of-view, and eyeglass wear possible issues of the zoom might be an issue. The Wide Nikon eyepieces do not have these issues. The cost difference is huge, the view differences are non-existent or the Nikon is better!

A lot of Nikon owners, me included, think that the 82 focus is very "fast" and I think it is, but you get used to it and not really a problem. I discovered that a lot of times you think you are not focused it is because you are focused on heat haze where you can't get a good focus anyway. Let me rephrase that, I have focused my 82 and have had razor-sharp views of lots of heat haze!

Of course this will all change, probably in many ways, when the new generation of Nikon Fieldscopes arrive! If for the better then hard to see how Nikon would not have the best scope line offering available, although the cost will probably go up considerably as well?!

EE

P.S. If you use the famous "Cable-Tie Sight" a narrower field of view is greatly negated as you can get on virtually any bird in a second or two, be it still, or on the wing, with the zoom, once you're fully trained!