Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old Wednesday 16th January 2008, 16:44   #1
Pete Robberts
Registered User

 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: britian
Posts: 41
are these ylgulls

or are they just herrings.If just Herrings what are the main ylg id features to look for in the field.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1.jpg
Views:	79
Size:	100.6 KB
ID:	121815  Click image for larger version

Name:	2.jpg
Views:	81
Size:	71.2 KB
ID:	121816  Click image for larger version

Name:	3.jpg
Views:	70
Size:	166.1 KB
ID:	121817  
Pete Robberts is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 16th January 2008, 18:57   #2
Harry Hussey
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Cork,Ireland
Posts: 3,986
Hi Pete,
I presume that the first two are of the same bird? I think that they are all Herring Gulls anyway, the first two being 2nd-winters (or, most likely, the same 2nd-w), with the third being more like a 3rd-winter.
Identification of subadult Yellow-legged Gulls isn't without its problems, with some pretty difficult birds (that are either less than classic Yellow-leggeds or fiendish lookalikes that take time to sort out), so, if you've never seen one, I'd suggest putting most of your effort into looking for adults, at least at first, though by no means ignoring any subadults that strike you as odd either.
I must stress that it is vitally important that you familiarise yourself with the variation within the different ages of Herring, Lesser Black-backed and Great Black-backed Gulls (some 1st-w GBB can look like some 1st-w Yellow-leggeds), as it is only in doing this that you start to get a better 'feel' for anything that lies outside of these species. That said, a classic adult Yellow-legged can be quite distinctive: at this time of year, many are starting to get brighter yellow legs than during the depths of the winter, and a bird showing such leg colour, upperparts shade similar to that of your average Common Gull, a powerful bill, full chest, long 'rear' etc can stand out amongst Herrings or Lesser Black-backeds. The very white-headed look is good too, but beware that some adults of LBB and especially Herring are becoming quite white-headed too around now: nevertheless, a white-headed bird with a darker mantle shade is always worthy of further investigation.
Any age from 2nd-w onwards will have some adult-type mantle and scapular feathers at least, by and large, and this will help you to pick candidates out from amongst similarly-aged Herring or Lesser Black-backed. Note that precise mantle shade can be difficult to judge on a bird in isolation, due to light conditions etc (basically, gulls will look darker in poor light and paler in strong sunlight), so it is best to compare a bird with others around it.
I hope that this helps for now?
Harry
Harry Hussey is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 16th January 2008, 19:04   #3
Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
 
Cristian Mihai's Avatar

 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 14,733
Like Harry, I would say it is/they are Herring.
Cristian Mihai is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 16th January 2008, 22:10   #4
JANJ
Registered User
 
JANJ's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 7,890
Firstly Pete, itīs wise to put a date to the observation!
To put it straight without to much plumage discussion, my immediadte impression is Herring Gull purely on struckture! How to explain that in simple words, and at the same time make statements that gulls vary - sometimes in such a degree that itīs impossible to be certain of, lets say, a 2nd winter Herring or a 2nd winter Yellow-legged.

I will try to illustrate the structural difference between Herring and Yellow-legged (remember that, although often fairly distinctive difference, this is a simplifyed way to suggest the difference between the two).

Take 2nd winter type YLG:
2cy, both Sept.

http://www.pbase.com/stephaubry/image/66997340

http://www.pbase.com/stephaubry/image/58855758

Some YLG Nov:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~daarruud/micha/micha2.html

Herring, 2nd winter (3cy).

http://www.pbase.com/stephaubry/image/72847741

http://www.gull-research.org/hg/hg3cy/h112075jan.htm

http://www.gull-research.org/hg/hg3cy/c033vjan.htm

Some 2nd winter type YLG:

http://www.iesmeulmeester.nl/fotos.p...&subcat=1&kj=2

to compare with Herrings:

http://www.iesmeulmeester.nl/fotos.p...&naam=331&kj=2

Direct, in this case a straightforward comparison, with a YLG and a Herring to note stronger bill usually blunter-tipped, larger head with bulbous forehead and somehow flatish crown and bull-necked. Also note the body structure with a slender hindpart and usually with longer primary projection in YLG.

http://www.iesmeulmeester.nl/fotos.p...&subcatsub=191

and this Herring to note the structure (but also plumage difference in this case to illustrate the often less advanced plumage of many Herrings at this age type:

http://www.iesmeulmeester.nl/fotos.p...&subcatsub=178

Also very good images by this Swedish birder:

http://www.pbase.com/slisch/large_gulls

Harry has good points about the learning process and description.

JanJ

Last edited by JANJ : Wednesday 16th January 2008 at 22:12.
JANJ is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

{googleads}

Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Search the net with ask.com
Help support BirdForum
Ask.com and get

Page generated in 0.20974302 seconds with 13 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 02:17.