[rossneder]

I'm at a crossroad and would really like some experienced advice.

I NEED, well OK want, a spotter that will see bullet placement at long yardage. I understand the atmospheric limitations but the options are many to maximize what I can see.

I have read a great deal of material, much over my head but have gleaned several ideas that make sense to me.

I would like a fairly long exit pupil, and have a large objective that can focus down to roughly my daylight pupil size, in other words use the whole objective, or at least maximize the use.

That's just starters-

Do bigeyes help significantly? People combine two 60-100mm spotters into bigeyes routinely but how much better is it really?

How about the bino add ons to regular spotters?

I understand that the eyepiece is the most important part of this assembly, which objective would you attach a Pentax or Swaro EP to?

I'm sorry for all the questions, certainly I'm not the first to assemble parts to get a high performance spotter, so what have you put together?

Weight and size are of secondary importance, for me the visual is most critical.

Hope somebody is up for helping,
Thanks,
Ross

[mooreorless]

Hi Ross,Welcome to Birdforum.Here is a good link on this subject. I have posted this before on here and hope it is not one you have seen before. The Orion 127mm Cat scope might be something you would want,they show a 105mm on here. Steve
http://www.6mmbr.com/spotterreview.html

[Can Popper]

You mean for doing stuff like this?

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=57013&page=2

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=61124

If you want cheap, very portable, and effective, I use the Orion Apex 90 with William Optics erecting diagonal and Siebert Performance 35mm + Edmund RKE 28mm eyepieces. This is my most popular setup at the range (from other curious shooters) and can spot .223 bullet holes out to 400 yards (I'm a long range target shooter).

Also, the eyerelief on the Siebert Performance 35mm and RKE 28mm will best that of almost any other spotter out there at 24mm and 24.5mm. I also have a trick where I screw in a barlow nosepiece to the bottom of the eyepiece to get over 30mm of eyerelief.

If you want to shoot in a very stiff wind, out to 400 yards, the Edmund Astroscan is the most stable setup I've ever used. That heavy round butt is simply unflappable when my other spotters (including Pentax 100ED) are shaking like leaves. You might feel a bit awkward though since most shooters think it is one odd looking choice.

And of course I also have the Pentax PF 100ED as well. Other shooters also love that scope but the price is a killer. Lots of oohss and aaahs.

I do have a HD video I took through the Orion Apex 90 from the gun range that I can post if you like.

[rossneder]

Thanks Steve and Can,

I have read those articles and then reread several times.

I have an old C5 that would be a good basis if I can get it up and running.

Still the question remains, does the stereotactic nature of binos significantly help resolution over a conventional spotter?

Thanks again,
Ross

[Can Popper]

If you have a C5 then you are most of the way there. It should be an excellent starting point.

Yes, the binoviewers do help with resolving bullet holes. Best performance would come from mounting them straight through to avoid the added softness induced by the erecting prisms. Your brain will have to adjust a little though.

[DRodrigues]

Ross,
I also have an old C5 and I'm interested in binoviewing through it. At http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=93017&page=2 you can see some of my tests and info links - purchase a Vixen image erector and make sure your C5 is well collimated. Please post the results you will get with binoviewing since is much cheaper in USA, in dollars, than in Europe, in euros...
David

[rossneder]

Hi David,

I've hit your site pretty hard, great info; thanks.

I can't afford Sieberts Binos, plus a year wait.

I can easily see Williams working though, any thoughts?

I'd like to have variable power without buying two eyepieces and trying to coordinate them.

Is there a way to put a zoom between the binos and the C5 body?

I'm not interested in close field work and ideally would like the ultimate power to be x40-120 or so. About max for a C5.

Best,
Ross

[Can Popper]

I used to have the William Optics binoviewers but sold them on Astromart and purchased the Siebert Black Knights 1.25". The William Optics binoviewers were not that well collimated and did not have self centering rings. As a result, my other eyepiece pairs outside of the included WO 20mm eyepieces never felt "right" when viewing.

The Sieberts work great and are the cheapest well functioning binoviewers that money can buy, IMO.

Why is there a 1 year wait for the Siebert Binoviewers? Is that what Harry Siebert told you? I spoke with Siebert in the past and the 1 year wait was only for the Siebert 2" binoviewers, not his 1.25" which should be available immediately. The 1.25" Sieberts cost only a tad bit more than the William Optics.

If you want variable power, then check out Siebert's powermag wheel. It has something like 4 barlows built in and allows you to change magnification by simply turning a disk.

If you go for the Siebert binoviewer, be sure the check out the Performance Series eyepieces. Very inexpensive, light, and extremely sharp with long eyerelief. He even has a new 42mm Performance eyepiece with 30mm of eyerelief.

[rossneder]

You are right, I saw the 2" and the wait and quit there, well actually after I saw the $2000 price tag!!

The 1.25 are definitely the way to go.
I saw the power wheel and must not understand how it works. X1 to X4 must mean powering the whole system, but I still don't understand what that works out to be in overall power factors.

For spotting bullet holes which combo of wheel and EP would you use?

Best,
Ross

[Can Popper]

Well, if I was to choose, I would say go with two Siebert Performance 35mm eyepieces and then ask Siebert to build me a power mag wheel that does 1x-1.5x-2x.

The thing about the Mak-Cassegrain design is you already got ALOT of focal length out the gate. For me, a 35mm eyepiece and 28mm eyepiece is enough to keep me happy out to 400 yards.

If you have the type of C5 with the same 1250mm of FL as my Apex, then a powermag wheel at 2x will give 17.5mm or 71x which should be near the limits for good terrestrial viewing anyways.

If you look carefully at the target pictures I posted, you can see that the target lines under heavy mirage gets really wavy even with a wonderful spotter like my Pentax 100.

[DRodrigues]

Can,
You are forgetting that using a binoviewer in the C5 the focal length will increase about 25% (due to mirror movement to focus with the bino).
Ross.
Using Can's suggestion of the 35mm I would suggest youto use the Power Mag Wheel for SCT/Mak (Minus 0.6x - 1x - 1.5x - 2x - 2.5x), that would result in 27 to 112x. With the 28mm the combo would result in 33 to 140x. With this magnifications heat waves can be a problem in some conditions but it will depend on the field conditions you usually get.
Can,
You don't have vignetting problems with the 28mm and 35mm in the Siebert binoviewer?
David

[Can Popper]

Well, the reason why I recommended the RKE 28 (FOV 45) and Siebert Performance 35 (FOV 47) is because they are both narrow field eyepieces and thus avoid the vignetting problem. With wider field eyepieces like the Siebert Ultra 24mm (FOV 65), I do get vignetting problems on my Mak.

But yes, the focal length does increase with the binoviewer. Your 0.6x starting mag for the powermag wheel is probably the superior solution.