[rootsman]

i hear a few birds could become new breeders soon but the 2 that intrest me are
black kite and purple heron

anyone know what the chances are of the 2 species breeding in the uk and also weather or not it will effect out grey heron or red kite?

cheers

also does anyone get flocks of starlings in their garden and if so how do you stop them taking all the food.....i have had at least 15 at one time for the last 2 weeks..any ideas?

[Clive Watson]

The question of potential colonists is a very old one, I remember birds like Serin, Greenish warbler, Fan-tailed warbler, Bluethroat, Penduline Tit and Thrush Nightingale being considered potential colonists and nothing ever came of it. Since the war, I can only think of three species that have colonised in a big way - Collared Dove, Cetti's Warbler and Little Egret (there may be some others I've forgotten of course) so as far as Black kite and Purple Heron goes, I think the odds are against it.

As regards the Starlings, I use feeder guardians (wire cages that go round feeders) to keep out Jackdaws and Carrion Crows, I'm not sure if they'd work on Starlings, but you might be able to get smaller sized mesh.

[Steve G]

Both certainly are potential breeders.
A mixed Red x Black Kite pair formed in Highland Region & made a breeding attempt in 2006. I think the Black Kite concerned may have been present in preceding years & was a returning bird.

Did a pair of Purple Herons not attempt to breed in East Anglia this year but had their nest flooded out???

Certainly if the Dutch population of Purple Herons was to rise then UK colonisation would have to be on the cards.

Black & Red Kites are sympatric in Spain & seem not to actively compete.

[KnockerNorton]

Originally Posted by Clive Watson

Since the war, I can only think of three species that have colonised in a big way - Collared Dove, Cetti's Warbler and Little Egret (there may be some others I've forgotten of course) so as far as Black kite and Purple Heron goes, I think the odds are against it.

Avocet, Med Gull?

There isn't the habitat for Purple Heron to colonise 'in a big way', it will only ever be sproadic breeders imo. Black Kite has had plenty of opportunity to colonise in the various warmer periods, and never has. As Clive says, people have been tipping Serin and Zitting Zisticola for decades but, if anything, we're losing plenty of warmer species (Red-backed Shrike, Wryneck, Cirl Bunting) rather than gaining them.

[mooskibaby]

Regarding the starlings Rootsman, take a look at this website, these are the sort of feeder cages you would possible need to help the little birds.

http://www.birdfood.co.uk/product_de...=35&prd_id=526

[rootsman]

Originally Posted by KnockerNorton

Avocet, Med Gull?

There isn't the habitat for Purple Heron to colonise 'in a big way', it will only ever be sproadic breeders imo. Black Kite has had plenty of opportunity to colonise in the various warmer periods, and never has. As Clive says, people have been tipping Serin and Zitting Zisticola for decades but, if anything, we're losing plenty of warmer species (Red-backed Shrike, Wryneck, Cirl Bunting) rather than gaining them.

i heard bill oddie on springwatch saying that i thought a number of species could be seen in the near future as breeders and he said that the spoonbill could already be a breeder and they certainly has been a good number of spoonbills seen this year.

also why do you think the P Heron will not do so well in UK as im not familiar with its habitat id have thought it would be similar to the grey heron TBH

[teamsaint]

May just be a rumour but I thought Purple Herons did breed last year

[Clive Watson]

Originally Posted by KnockerNorton

Avocet, Med Gull?

Oh yeah, Med Gull of course. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Avocet a re-coloniser in response to conservation measures, like Marsh Harrier and Osprey?

(Plus there's Eagle Owl of course......!)

[KnockerNorton]

Originally Posted by Clive Watson

Oh yeah, Med Gull of course. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Avocet a re-coloniser in response to conservation measures, like Marsh Harrier and Osprey?

(Plus there's Eagle Owl of course......!)

Yeah, Avocet bred until the early 20th Century, I think. Last nest was on the Humber (where Blacktoft sands now is).

Purple Heron requires more reedy wetland than Grey Heron, I think, and is at a lower density (less colonial?) so we're unlikely to get a significant population with our scattered habitat. Grey Herons will fish in garden ponds. Purples wont.

Spoonbills have bred for several years on and off I think, although i reckon they're in the same boat as Purple Heron. Sporadic breeders. It's not the same thing as a regular breeding population.

It is also worth pointing out that Bill Oddie is a TV presenter, musician and comedian. His degree was in English, not zoology or ornithology. He's not an 'expert' on birds or their biology, he's more of a keen amateur birdwatcher. What he says is far from gospel and shouldn't be taken as expert knowledge. Kate Humble probably has as much experience as Bill does now.

[rootsman]

anyone know wheres the best place for purple herons as i live in norfolk i hear they are seen here from time to time...anyone know of any nature reserves they visit frequently...i know birdguides updates rarities

[KnockerNorton]

Originally Posted by rootsman

anyone know wheres the best place for purple herons as i live in norfolk i hear they are seen here from time to time...anyone know of any nature reserves they visit frequently...i know birdguides updates rarities

Minsmere's your best bet.