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Lol · Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:23

Poor photo - taken this morning locally in South Wales.
The bird was very grey - but the bill was white throughout.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.

steve_nova · Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:26

The American Coot looks to be very grey in the body. Do you think it could be this?

christineredgate · Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:32

Interesting,Lol,as yes,all our coots are all black,leastways all the ones i've seen around here are.
Christine.

Steve G · Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:34

It looks to have the typical Eurasian Coot frontal shield I think though its difficult to tell for certain from the image.

Lol · Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_nova

The American Coot looks to be very grey in the body. Do you think it could be this?

I have to confess that that was what briefly crossed my mind this morning - the narrow shield also looks good - but the bill is completely wrong - so I wrote it off as an aberant eurasian - but took a few snaps out of interest. The more I look at the snaps, the more interesting it gets :-)

Charles Harper · Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:35

Slight leucism again?

steve_nova · Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:36

American> http://www.stetson.edu/~pmay/woodruff/coot.jpg

American> http://www.perimeterpoint.com/galleries/birds/coot.jpg

British> http://www.uksafari.com/jpeg/coot.jpg

British> http://user.chollian.net/~aves/photo-gallary/(01-05)european%20Coot3-1.jpg

Hmmm.....the American Coot and the European Coot both seem to vary in their greyness but the eyes of the American do seem redder as well as having a dark bar towards the front of the bill.

steve_nova · Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:37

.......sorry, last link don't work!

Bluetail · Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:37

Hmm. I'd like to see a shot with the head in profile. It appears that the feathering at the base of the bill may project onto the bill in a point, which would rule out American Coot. Not sure that the white shield isn't a touch too extensive for AM too. Must go and see what photos I can find.

Jason

Bluetail · Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:38

Blimey, you all posted quickly! Yes, definitely a Common Coot.

Jason

steve_nova · Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:41

European (three images) > http://user.chollian.net/~aves/photo...ean%20Coot.htm

........and very grey looking.

Lol · Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluetail

Hmm. I'd like to see a shot with the head in profile.
Jason

This is the only profile shot - suffers badly from shake 9poor light) - not sure if it helps ?

steve_nova · Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:43

Possibly just regional variation within the species regarding it's greyness then?

Steve G · Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:45

Maybe Coot go grey before they go bald!

Lol · Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve G

Maybe Coot go grey before they go bald!

... yes - I know exactly how they must feel :-)

Thanks for your input everyone - much appreciated

steve_nova · Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:51

Tee hee

Bluetail · Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:54

I'm guilty of not looking too closely at Coots (I think the jury might acquit me there), but I think this is probably a first-winter bird. First winters are paler than adults (and have a slight brownish cast to the plumage which I think I detect here) and a much smaller frontal shield than adults.

Jason

Ashley beolens · Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:59

Don't american coot have a white bum like a moorhen!

Bluetail · Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:59

Yup, though a bit more restricted if I recall correctly.

Jason

steve_nova · Thursday 15th January 2004, 22:02

In the second American link (post #7) I think you can just make out the white bum!

Ashley beolens · Thursday 15th January 2004, 22:08

Would the lack of a large bald patch mean it is a 1st winter bird (no bird books at work to confirm this).

Or at least one that has not bred Kids are helping my baldness at any rate!!

Bluetail · Thursday 15th January 2004, 22:14

Well adult Coots' shields are variable in size and can't apparently be used for aging (I've just looked it up!), but I think it's safe to say that a shield as restricted as the one in the pic would indicate a first winter.

Jason

Michael Frankis · Thursday 15th January 2004, 22:40

Dunno if the greyness means anything or not, but I can't recollect ever having seen a coot with such a pink bill - or is that just the bad light again?

Michael

Steve G · Thursday 15th January 2004, 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Frankis

.. a coot with such a pink bill ....
Michael

You at the African Hemp again?

CJW · Friday 16th January 2004, 05:11

The pink caste to the bill that Michael refers to is often visible in certain light conditions and attitudes - (similar to the flat light of this picture and foreshortened attitude of the bird).
I see nothing wrong with the grey-ish appearance of the body colour, again flat light often reveals subtle nuances that aren't visible in more contrasting conditions. The size of the shield isn't particluarly relevant for aging and sexing and is quite a variable feature.
This is just a 'normal' Eurasian Coot Fulica Atra.

Chris

Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:23	#1
Lol Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: South Glamorgan Posts: 20	Interesting Coot Poor photo - taken this morning locally in South Wales. The bird was very grey - but the bill was white throughout. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Attached Thumbnails

Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:32	#3
christineredgate Winner of the Copeland Wildlife Photographer of the Year Comp 2009/2010 Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Haverigg,South Cumbria Posts: 31,927 My location	Interesting,Lol,as yes,all our coots are all black,leastways all the ones i've seen around here are. Christine. __________________ Haverigg.net Ride Free,Fly Free. Avatar by Tracker(Tom) Christine
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Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:34	#4
Steve G RAINBIRDER Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: FIFE, SCOTLAND Posts: 13,725	It looks to have the typical Eurasian Coot frontal shield I think though its difficult to tell for certain from the image.
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Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:35	#6
Charles Harper Régisseur Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 2,313	Slight leucism again? __________________ ... al with-oute, the mewe is peynted grene, In which were peynted alle thise false foules, As beth thise tidifs, tercelets, and oules,... and pyes.... Kantorilode: Birds of Japan .
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Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:37	#9
Bluetail Senior Moment Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Plymouth, Devon Posts: 6,409	Hmm. I'd like to see a shot with the head in profile. It appears that the feathering at the base of the bill may project onto the bill in a point, which would rule out American Coot. Not sure that the white shield isn't a touch too extensive for AM too. Must go and see what photos I can find. Jason
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Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:26	#2
steve_nova Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: UK Posts: 3,858	The American Coot looks to be very grey in the body. Do you think it could be this?

Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:36	#7
steve_nova Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: UK Posts: 3,858	American> http://www.stetson.edu/~pmay/woodruff/coot.jpg American> http://www.perimeterpoint.com/galleries/birds/coot.jpg British> http://www.uksafari.com/jpeg/coot.jpg British> http://user.chollian.net/~aves/photo-gallary/(01-05)european%20Coot3-1.jpg Hmmm.....the American Coot and the European Coot both seem to vary in their greyness but the eyes of the American do seem redder as well as having a dark bar towards the front of the bill.

Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:38	#10
Bluetail Senior Moment Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Plymouth, Devon Posts: 6,409	Blimey, you all posted quickly! Yes, definitely a Common Coot. Jason
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Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:41	#11
steve_nova Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: UK Posts: 3,858	European (three images) > http://user.chollian.net/~aves/photo...ean%20Coot.htm ........and very grey looking.

Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:43	#13
steve_nova Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: UK Posts: 3,858	Possibly just regional variation within the species regarding it's greyness then?

Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:45	#14
Steve G RAINBIRDER Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: FIFE, SCOTLAND Posts: 13,725	Maybe Coot go grey before they go bald!
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Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:51	#16
steve_nova Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: UK Posts: 3,858	Tee hee

Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:54	#17
Bluetail Senior Moment Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Plymouth, Devon Posts: 6,409	I'm guilty of not looking too closely at Coots (I think the jury might acquit me there), but I think this is probably a first-winter bird. First winters are paler than adults (and have a slight brownish cast to the plumage which I think I detect here) and a much smaller frontal shield than adults. Jason
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Thursday 15th January 2004, 21:59	#18
Ashley beolens Breeding the next generation of birders. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Milton Keynes, Bucks, UK Posts: 1,159	Don't american coot have a white bum like a moorhen! __________________ Ashley Beolens http://www.fatphotographer.net http://viewsfromanurbanlake.blogspot.co.uk/ - Local patch blog http://mothininthegarden.blogspot.com/ - Moth Blog

Thursday 15th January 2004, 22:02	#20
steve_nova Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: UK Posts: 3,858	In the second American link (post #7) I think you can just make out the white bum!

Thursday 15th January 2004, 22:08	#21
Ashley beolens Breeding the next generation of birders. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Milton Keynes, Bucks, UK Posts: 1,159	Would the lack of a large bald patch mean it is a 1st winter bird (no bird books at work to confirm this). Or at least one that has not bred Kids are helping my baldness at any rate!! __________________ Ashley Beolens http://www.fatphotographer.net http://viewsfromanurbanlake.blogspot.co.uk/ - Local patch blog http://mothininthegarden.blogspot.com/ - Moth Blog

Thursday 15th January 2004, 22:14	#22
Bluetail Senior Moment Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Plymouth, Devon Posts: 6,409	Well adult Coots' shields are variable in size and can't apparently be used for aging (I've just looked it up!), but I think it's safe to say that a shield as restricted as the one in the pic would indicate a first winter. Jason
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Thursday 15th January 2004, 22:40	#23
Michael Frankis conehead Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: . Posts: 6,794	Dunno if the greyness means anything or not, but I can't recollect ever having seen a coot with such a pink bill - or is that just the bad light again? Michael

Friday 16th January 2004, 05:11	#25
CJW Hit-and-run WUM Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Isle of Man Posts: 4,791	The pink caste to the bill that Michael refers to is often visible in certain light conditions and attitudes - (similar to the flat light of this picture and foreshortened attitude of the bird). I see nothing wrong with the grey-ish appearance of the body colour, again flat light often reveals subtle nuances that aren't visible in more contrasting conditions. The size of the shield isn't particluarly relevant for aging and sexing and is quite a variable feature. This is just a 'normal' Eurasian Coot Fulica Atra. Chris __________________ Chris Isle of Man Birding

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