[Kahuna29]

Hi, I have been putting some money aside for a new pair of roof prisim Bins. I have about £200 saved and I probably could be persuaded to add another £100 if I thought I was getting my monies worth.

I have looked at some Opticron's, Verano's and Countrymans and looking through both side by side, I couldn't really tell the difference, although the build quality on the Verano is better. I am planning on looking though the Helios AM6 and the AM6 super high resolution's next week. I tried some Bushnells, but I thought they were of lesser quality.

While I don't mind paying for quality, I don't want to pay more than I need and it seems with binoculars you get a diminishing return.

What other models should I be looking to try. I am in no immediate hurry to buy and will certainly wait until the local in focus event next month before deciding and where I can try the opticron BGA classic.

Any help or opinion on the bins I've tried and the bins I should try, would be very much appreciated!

Thanks

Dan

[Tero]

Bushnell Legend 10x42
Nikon Monarch 10x42
The Opticrons are probably OK

Make sure the unit you come home with works OK and is not out of alignment. Look at distant obejects for a while in the store at home. If it does not give eye strain, an unpelasant feeling, they should be OK.

Do you have 10x before? A good bright 8x may give you a wider field or other advantage. When you move up in price, you may find that 10x is not necessary. Color, contrast etc will give you more detail than you had before.

I use 10x42 and 8x32.

[edz]

Well, I'd put in a suggestion to look for the Celestron Regal LX 10x42 roof. There are still some for sale out there and it is a very fine performer. Hands down beats the daylights out of the Nikon Monach 10x42 roof. In fact, the Monarch I tested had the poorest resolution of all roofs. In addition the Monarch had significant tilt in the light beam projection in one barrel. The Regal measured up as one of the top binoculars out of a group of 35 roofs and pooros. For total transmission, both the Regal 10x42 AND 8x42 beat out the Nikon Monarch 10x42.

The 10x42 Regal has close focus of 7' (2.1m) same as Monarch, weighs 25 oz. (700g.) 3 oz more than the Monarch, and has eye relief usable 13mm (1mm longer than the Monarch), 6.0° fov, the Monarch is 6.2°

The Nikon SE 10-x42 beat them all, in every single category, but cost considerably more, when you can find it.

See this review
42mm Roofs Compared
all the binoculars I mentioned above are included in this review
http://www.cloudynights.com/documents/roofs.pdf

edz

edz

[J. Moore]

Look at the Vortex Vipers 10 x 42. I use the 8 x 42 and really like them.

Best,
Jim

[FrankD]

I always have a difficult time converting European currencies to US ones. Assuming $500-$600 US I would be looking at either the previously mentioned Vortex Viper or the Pentax SPs. Both offer some of the best performance I have seen from a full-sized roof in this price range.

Jumping down to the $300-$350 price range I would be looking at either the Nikon Monarch or Swift Ultralite roofs.

[Kahuna29]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions, I have tried a Nikon Monarch 10x42 side by side with a opticron verano and I thought the verano was much clearer. I am heading to the CLA game fair this weekend and I would have thought that all the above mentioned brands/models will be on show.
I quite like to sound of the Vortex warranty. I am a farmer, so they are likely to get knocked about a bit.
I shall keep you all posted.
Thanks for your help so far
Dan

[Tero]

Frank, the Monarch over there sells for 235 pounds. The 8x43 or 10x43 Pentax sells for about 400 pounds.

[MacGee]

Dan, a step up from the Verano (and the Helios AM-6, which is a Verano clone) would be the Opticron BGA SE. A fair bit more than your top price, at £355, but I thought I'd toss it in anyway. The old BGA was much the same (I believe) as the Pentax DCF SP, so the new SE should be even better than that much praised model. To give you an idea of the quality of the BGA SE compared to the Classic, again at 8x42, here are the scores given to them by Kikkertspesialisten (out of 12) for Resolution, Contrast, Brightness, Edge Sharpness, Glasses-friendliness and Build Quality:

Classic....9+...10....9+..8+..11..11–
BGA SE..10+..10+..9+..11..11..11

Good luck at the fair.

Michael

[Kahuna29]

Thanks Michael, I've not tried the Classic or the SE. Sherwoods have got the verano for £250 and the SE for £360. In focus have the Classic for £299. All 3 have a 30 year warranty. Is the SE worth £110 more more than the verano?
Thanks
Dan

[MacGee]

Originally Posted by Kahuna29

Is the SE worth £110 more more than the verano?

All I can say is that it would be for me. Try it out, along with the rest of the candidates, and then decide whether it's £110 better, or indeed whether it's better at all.

Michael.

[Steve C]

Kahuna,

As one Farmer to another let me say I really like my Vortex Viper 10x42. The Vortex Fury costs a little less and should again be be available on the market soon. The Viper may well turn to be the most durable of the two.

[Kahuna29]

Thanks Steve,

I think I need to compare the opticron verano/classic and the vortex viper side by side.

[Sancho]

Here's a <300 sterling idea....a pair of Nikon EII 10x35. Still available from Aceoptics in Bath, maybe elsewhere too. I got a pair some time ago, just to have 10x in the armoury. I find them superb, very wide (7 degree) FOV, sharper and brighter than any 10x I've ever seen. I find myself using them more and more. Very light. Possible downsides: they're obviously porros, not waterproof, not nitrogen filled, and the eye-relief wouldn't suit spectacle-wearers. If these don't bother you, you'd have plenty of change from 300 quid.

[Kahuna29]

I tried out the Opticron Verano, Classic and the Imagic SE on the weekend and not suprisingly I thought the Imagic SE was considerably better. Its over my budget, but Sherwoods are offering it for £360 including a free 2.5x Universal Tele-adapter. Now bear with me on this, but if I bought the imagic and sold the UTA, the Imagic would probably only cost me £300. Sherwoods also see the Vortex range, so I can try out the Viper and the Razor.

[Kevin Purcell]

Originally Posted by Tero

Make sure the unit you come home with works OK and is not out of alignment. Look at distant obejects for a while in the store at home. If it does not give eye strain, an unpelasant feeling, they should be OK.

A quick in-store test (stolen from edz at Cloudy Nights) is to set the bins to your IPD, center the bins on some small distant object then move the bins away from your eyes (as if you were going to examine the exit pupil) to but keeping them pointed at the object.

Your eyes should keep the object you were looking at fused together in the center of the circle. If the two barrels are out of collimation you won't be able to keep the object centered in both at the same time. If that happens reject the pair.

This is perhaps the fourth test I do on a bin. First is to shake it (anything loose?). Second look at the objective, ocular and prisms for scratches and internal junk. Third is look through the bins for anything obviously bad (tilted optics, mis-matched focus or misaligned prism). Then this test. The next test is to look at the exit pupils for obstructions as you have the bins away from your eyes. If it passes these tests then you can start looking at it more seriously.

This should save you leaving the store with a complete lemon.

[Northern Viking]

Originally Posted by MacGee

Dan, a step up from the Verano (and the Helios AM-6, which is a Verano clone) would be the Opticron BGA SE. A fair bit more than your top price, at £355, but I thought I'd toss it in anyway. The old BGA was much the same (I believe) as the Pentax DCF SP, so the new SE should be even better than that much praised model. To give you an idea of the quality of the BGA SE compared to the Classic, again at 8x42, here are the scores given to them by Kikkertspesialisten (out of 12) for Resolution, Contrast, Brightness, Edge Sharpness, Glasses-friendliness and Build Quality:

Classic....9+...10....9+..8+..11..11–
BGA SE..10+..10+..9+..11..11..11

Good luck at the fair.

Michael

The owner of a bino-store in Norway recomended me Opticron over Leica, Zeiss and Swarovski, and he sells them all. He told me to choose
10x42/8x42 Imagic BGA SE over more expensive Opticron's and said that they were equal to or better than Swarovski SLC 10x42 WB new, which is the same as EL optical wise(EL is lighter and more compact) Soon I will go there and check myself, I never told the guy that I had a budget, however I told him that my family which hunts reindeer allways have used Zeiss and Swarovski, and that I wondered if they are worth the price over other brands like Vortex, Opticron, Nikon, Meopta Kite and so on. I am 100% sure that he makes more profit if I buy Leica, Zeiss and Swarovski, since they go for twice the price of Opticron Imagic BGA SE!

[Steve C]

In the scenario you describe, I would quite curious to know what the store's profit per binocular on the models compared was. I don't doubt that the Imagic BGA SE is a good glass. Business is business, he got a good sale you got a binocular you like.

[Chris Galvin]

Originally Posted by Northern Viking

I am 100% sure that he makes more profit if I buy Leica, Zeiss and Swarovski, since they go for twice the price of Opticron Imagic BGA SE!

I think that you will find that in percentage terms he will make more profit margin with the Opticron models than with the Austro-German marques

[Chris Galvin]

Kevin Purcell,

Why do you have a Liver Bird as your Avatar?

[Kevin Purcell]

Originally Posted by Chris Galvin

Why do you have a Liver Bird as your Avatar?

Well, spotted!

I believe they're still locally common at the Pier Head but they're down to one pair. Not on the official BOU British List though. Perhaps if they would breed

There's only one sane reason anyone would do that ... I'm a Scouser (born in Oxford St hospital and grew up in Walton and then Formby ... so it could have been a Red Squirrel). I still have great affection for cormorants too.

For other's (non-UK types!) who wonder what a Liver Bird is and where to spot it try

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liver_Bird

[Northern Viking]

Originally Posted by Chris Galvin

I think that you will find that in percentage terms he will make more profit margin with the Opticron models than with the Austro-German marques

The EL 10-42 cost about 14.000,- NOK If he gets 10% of the sale that equals to 25% on the Imagic Opticron whic cost 5.600,- NOK


A uncle of my in-wedded aunt sells Zeiss so I know a thing or two about profit on those, and when I do the math I don't belive it will give him better cash-flow selling Opticron over more expensive binos, but percetage wise it might look better. However 20% of 1500,- US $ will allways be more than 40% of 600$. and you use up less storage.


Off-topic, I got my degree in economics in Tennesse while playing football.

I saw the US $ go from 9,61 NOK to 6,7 NOK from 10.2000-12.2003
Since the US $ has gone from 9,61 NOK in october 2000 to belowe 5.0 NOK this year, it is hard to give Americans real understanding of prices in Europe since a bread or a gallon of milk(home-made products) cost about the same
for you guys.

I have read at least 10 different test's which all give Opticron Imagic very good grades, as i mentioned the Zeiss, Swarovski and Leica did 0,1-0,2 better of a scale from 0-12 on 6 different areas(Resolution, Contrast, Brightness, Edge Sharpness, Glasses-friendliness and Build Quality) and when the price is between 2,5 to 3,0 times lower i started to belive.
Sometimes there is a underdog who can battle with the big dog's!!

[harold9649]

Hi
Sorry to but in but have heard the opticron imagic are vey good i am using Nikon Monarhs but i unfortunatly dropped them and they started steaming up so i may try out the opticron. photoexpresslakeland an ebay shop are selling the 8x42 for £269 plus £8.95 delivery i have heard good reports about there shop as a friend has purchased from them at Ulverston.
Cheers
Harold

[Allan Hobbs]

Originally Posted by Kahuna29

I tried out the Opticron Verano, Classic and the Imagic SE on the weekend and not suprisingly I thought the Imagic SE was considerably better. Its over my budget, but Sherwoods are offering it for £360 including a free 2.5x Universal Tele-adapter. Now bear with me on this, but if I bought the imagic and sold the UTA, the Imagic would probably only cost me £300. Sherwoods also see the Vortex range, so I can try out the Viper and the Razor.

Hi Kahuna,
did you make a choice?
If it's any help we spent a loooong time looking at bins from £100 to £500 at birdfair, and eventually settled on the Vortex Vipers. We could even get two pairs of 10x42 for the same price as one pair Bushnell Elite for example. The vipers really do punch well above their price range and we are very happy with them.
Allan

[Kevin Purcell]

Originally Posted by harold9649

Hi
Sorry to but in but have heard the opticron imagic are vey good i am using Nikon Monarhs but i unfortunatly dropped them and they started steaming up so i may try out the opticron. photoexpresslakeland an ebay shop are selling the 8x42 for £269 plus £8.95 delivery i have heard good reports about there shop as a friend has purchased from them at Ulverston.
Cheers
Harold

You should also consider if Nikon can repair your current bins, even if you want to upgrade

[Kahuna29]

Hi Allan,
I'm still looking, although because the weather has been so terrible lately, I'm not looking as hard as I was, but I still need to buy a pair of binos.
I really appreciate all the advice that has been offered so far.
Kahuna