[Overread]

Ok I know mms are not everything in this game and that you can get fantastic shots of wild birds with a 50mm (seen them!).
However I would like some advice or links/refrences to such for the birder who only has a shorter focal range. Currently I have the two lenses listed in my sig - both of which I can use a 2*TC to get a decent 400mm max zoom and 300mm prime and I would like some advice to getting the best out of this kit in the field.
Any advice is welcome - thank you

[twolf]

The way I see it less mms means more work and much much better field technique (to get within range).
It is certainly possible to shoot great images with 200mm, but it is limiting and painful when you have to over-crop, or there is too much background clutter captured by the lens, or you simply spook the bird one time too many.

The only "Advice for the birder with 200mm" I can give you is to buy a longer lens - Canon's excellent 400mm/5.6L would be my first choice.

[stevetb]

I agree with you that there are a lot of good shots with smaller focal length lenses, but most of these will be taken from a setup or a hide, where getting close to the bird is not an issue (e.g a feeding station or kingfisher setup).
Having the 70-200 will mean either setting up a hide or having excellent fieldwork (as twolf says). This puts you at a big disadvantage if your style of photography is walking around and shooting what you see, as you really do need to get close. And when you do get close, you would be even closer if you had a 400mm.
What I would suggest is some sort of feeding station in your garden, with a hide or tent (or window!) to shoot from. This way you can control the distance the birds are, what sort of setting you are shooting in, background etc. In addition garden birds tend to be more tame and used to human presence than other birds. With developing your field skills, and getting closer to birds, you run the very big risk of scaring and frightening the birds alot, and thats not really what wildlife photography is about. O.K, sometimes we accidentally frighten the birds, but a longer lens means more working distance, and less chance of scaring a bird or animal.

As long as your realise the limitations of your setup, and work within them, you should get some good shots.

Hope that helps.

[Overread]

Originally Posted by twolf

The only "Advice for the birder with 200mm" I can give you is to buy a longer lens - Canon's excellent 400mm/5.6L would be my first choice.

For me its a 300mm f2.8 and 500mm that I am after - all I need is the money!

I am also thinking that bird tables are going to be the way forward - I was thinking of usind one and attaching some branches to it (or placing it near a bush) to get some more natural surroundings - so as my photos will look a little more wild

[Jaff]

Buy an IR remote release, they range in price from £15ish with a range of 5m (but must be stood in front of the camera) to some around £50 which can work from upto 50m or even 100m away and don't need to be in front of the camera.

[Overread]

I have seen good work with remote photography - though I am thinking that a radio remote would work better - IR could get blocked by leaves/hide ect more than radio I feel

[Jaff]

If you can afford it then go for it, I don't know if you can get one for under £100 and the Canon one's are something like £400

[citrinella]

Originally Posted by Overread

For me its a 300mm f2.8 and 500mm that I am after - all I need is the money!

I am also thinking that bird tables are going to be the way forward - I was thinking of usind one and attaching some branches to it (or placing it near a bush) to get some more natural surroundings - so as my photos will look a little more wild

I bought a 70-200 f2.8 IS for other purposes and, like you, added a 2x for birding. It was an OK compromise, and taught me that if you know what you want, save up and wait. If you go splashing out on further compromises, you'll be eroding your savings and will have to wait much longer. I stopped buying, saved up, and the wait for a 500 f4 wasn't so long.

In the meantime field craft can get you a long way. Identify where the birds like to return to - feeding or drinking places*, choose your position according to the light, and settle down to wait. It is best to use the same spot habitually, many birds will accept you reasonably well and you can get a lot of pleasure from watching, even if the shots are often not quite what you hoped for. Sometimes they will be - but that will happen more often when you can afford a longer lens (and don't forget appropriate support).

*Be very wary of photographing near nests. Don't if you have any suspicions that you are causing distress. For some species photography near the nest requires a license (which won't be obtained without a very good reason) and all species have a degree of legal protection.

Mike.

[Overread]

True things could add up over time - my problem at the moment is I am a student, so income is anything but regular or predictable - hence I am trying to focus on the slightly cheaper longer term kit as opposed to saving for the big primes (I can add a lot to my macro kit and remote usage for less).
The big prime saving for me will start once I get a stable(ish) job and can budget for it -

As for the watching - that is certainly something I think I will end up doing a lot of - after a good set of binos for that. If I can at least get into a position of watching least I know I can get there once I get the longer primes.

As for the radio remote - I think there are cheaper varients than the canon official - will try to hunt some out (also looking for remote tripod heads, although whilst it sounds good without being able to use the viewfinder its limiting - I suppose I could get a laptop and a long connection lead and shoot via remote - though I suspect I would need a liveview camera for that.

[Martin Thomas]

Overread - Are you aware that as a student/professional you may qualify for a discount on Leica and Zeiss optical products? Both companies offer a scheme which provides a substantial saving on RRP and whilst there are some excellent internet deals the products may still work out cheaper. Contact their respective UK sales office for more info.

[Overread]

ooh only one more year as a student!
Will have a look at that - thanks Martin!
I take is that optical products would include their line of binos as well as their lenses - the lenses won't be a concern but a discount on a set of binos would be grand!

[Martin Thomas]

When I applied I only ever enquired about scopes and binoculars but you could ask whether other items migt be included.

The only problem with completing your studies is paying back your student loan (assuming you can find a job in conservation that pays enough to cross the repyament threshold!).

[postcardcv]

Personally I think the best thing a birder with a 200mm lens can do is to try and avoid getting obsessed with frame filling shots (they are often hard enough to get with a 500mm lens). Go for shots that show the bird/animal in it's environment, a 200mm lens would be fine for this (add a 1.4x tc if you need a bit more reach). I feel that these sort of shots are not seen often enough (I wish I thought to take them more often) but they tend to stand out when done well.