[Jane Turner]

answers on a postcard...or probably better by posting....taken yeaterday in the UK

[Michael Frankis]

I'll go for a backcross (American Wigeon x Eurasian Wigeon) x Eurasian Wigeon (i.e., ¾ Eurasian, ¼ American). Or perhaps just one eighth American.

But if I was putting in a record card for it to the county recorder, I'd just stick it down as Eurasian Wigeon.

Michael

[Stephen Dunstan]

Jane,

Had one like this a couple of months ago, apparently well within normal Wigeon variation though the first like that I'd seen.

Apprently birds which look like this are more common further east, but what Michael says about American Wigeon influence may also be relevant.

Stephen.

[Bluetail]

An element of hybridism would seem the obvious answer, but I wonder whether it's as simple as that. I once saw a male Wigeon at Dawlish Warren with a green head patch much like this one, but less well marked. After a while the bird turned its head slightly, upon which the green vanished leaving the bird looking just like any other male Wigeon. Obviously the green was there, but seeing it depended on how the light caught it. Given that American and Eurasian Wigeons must have originally been one species, could the green on the bird I saw have been due to some regressive gene? If so, what about Jane's bird?

Not being a biologist I don't know anything about genetics, so I hope someone will put me right if I'm way off mark.

Jason

[Edward woodwood]

looks like a Euarasian to me but a slightly strange one that as Stephen says do exist.....see BB 96 vol 1 for a very similar bird

the green post ocular in this bird is a rare variant plumage

[Jane Turner]

It was taken by Martine Garner Yesterday.. and recorded as a wigeon x American wigeon.

"Taken at Weldrake Ings today (ie yesterday)...rubbish light! one of these presumed hybris type Wigeon/ American wigeon. (with c 2000 Wigeon) .also was longer- tailed than most Eurasian Wigeon there and auxilliaries LOOKED white but cant be sure! "

He didn't have time to post it hmself.

[Edward woodwood]

Since this bird appears to be a Eurasian in other respects, flank colour and face colour etc it would appear to be a variant plumage rather than a hybrid. Indeed the recent excellent BB article states that birds showing typical features of Eurasian in all other respects aside from head pattern are more likely to be variant than a hybrid.

[Stephen Dunstan]

Jane,

I would have agreed with you / Martin until recently, now I would put it down as an aberrant Wigeon for the reasons Tim gives above.

In terms of the axilliaries whilst it is essential they fit on a claimed American presumably there is some variation in Eurasians?

Stephen.

[Stephen Dunstan]

Here are a couple of pictures of the bird I had, sorry for quality.

[Jane Turner]

To be honest I've never looked at enough Wigeon auxilliaries, being duck-o-phobic agree your bird looks similar.. was it also large and long-tailed looking

[Stephen Dunstan]

Jane,

No, the only other thing about it that was obvious was that the breast was a different shade of pink to the other drakes present and I don't think a lot can be read into that.

If this link works here is some discussion by Dick Newell on his site.

http://www.magikcircle.com/birds/ima...umbnails=False

Note also the female with axilliaries which look whisitsh!

Stephen.

[Stephen Dunstan]

Here is another reference which may be of interest:

http://www.astro.utu.fi/hlehto/photo...aamexpen.shtml

Stephen.

[Jane Turner]

Ducks.. yuck :) Martin thought this bird had black at the base of the bill... but it was just a bit distant.

Thanks Stephen

[Harry Hussey]

Hi all,
I have seen a small few birds similar to this that I've ID'd as variant Eurasian Wigeon,as no other features pointed to a possible hybrid origin.One would expect a trace of American Wigeon colouration on the flanks or mantle of a hybrid(though maybe not necessarily so?).
Harry H

[Joern Lehmhus]

Hi all,
I would also ID this as a variant Eurasion wigeon; at least if identified as a hybrid this would not be a first generation hybrid in my opinion but rather a backcross to Eurasion wigeon over some generations (perhaps being 1/8 AW or less). A genetical analysis of such birds and of Eurasian and American Wigeon would be interesting here to get this cleared, though probably no one would pay for this...

When I searched in the net, I found some pics of birds that may be first generation hybrids (I put two in here- tried to post the links before,but my PC shut down), and lots of birds with green on the head but otherwise Eurasian - Wigeon-looking; also some birds looking like American Wigeon, only lacking this salt-and pepper-pattern on the sides of the head.

I suppose there is some gene flow between these two closely related species, but it´s hard to say if the green head is just a variant within the species or a variant that has come into the gene pool by interbreeding.

It´s as strange as those variant mallard males with a blue bill.

[CJW]

Snowy-white axillars, longer tailed and a black line at the base of the bill (barely visible in this shot, but it was there).

[daverigden]

chiloe wigeon a.sibilatrix has green patch, bill, rear end same- maybe bit of an escape in there?

[Michael Frankis]

Originally Posted by Joern Lehmhus

It´s as strange as those variant mallard males with a blue bill.

Hi Joern,

I think this is a dominant gene that comes from Pintail - I have seen this persisting for several generations of Mallards, after one Mallard x Pintail hybrid had entered the Mallard population in my local park. The other Pintail characters disappeared by the second generation (¼-Pintail, ¾-Mallard), but the blue bill seems to persist well.

Michael

[Joern Lehmhus]

Thanks, Michael,
that was my suspect also, but hadn´t had the chance to get it confirmed by own observations.
Also fits to the fact that I see blue-billed Mallards more commonly in northern Germany, where there are more pintails around, compared to southern Germany.

[Brian Stone]

Also take a look at the following:
http://www.magikcircle.com/birds/image.asp?title_id=898
and
http://www.cambridgebirdclub.org.uk/...igeons2002.jpg
This last one was at Wicken Fen, October 2002.