[kristoffer]

Hi!
I recently bought a pair of vortex vipers and i am extremely pleased with em. However I have noticed that i need another pair of binoculars that fits in pocket of my jacket when I am not out birding but still would like to have some magnification available.
So I am searching for a pocket size bin, (roof or porro doesn't matter) for under $250. Can anyone give me a tip?

[Tero]

You are then stuck with 8x25 roofs that are not phase coated. Nikon, Opticron have some models. The Nikon Sportstar has at least decent eye cups, not those rubber ones. Though older models of the same had the rubber.

Vortex has some small models, but they are pretty poor, nothing to compare to the models from Fury up.

Pentax has a 8x25 and the price is OK, nothing special, almost the same as the Nikon, even though phase coated.
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=5181

I would go for the widest field you can get. My favorite is a deleted Minolta model.

[Pete Mella]

I got some Opticron Taiga 8x25s for about £60 ($110-ish) on eBay and they're superb. They're slightly chunkier than some, but easily fit in a jacket or combat-style trouser pocket, and the optics in them are brilliant and they have good quality twist-up eyecups that are perfect for glasses-wearers such as myself.

They're so good I hardly ever take my larger bins out any more unless I'm having a full day's birding at a reserve or whatever.

[kristoffer]

Thanks guys. That Opticron sounds interesting. Need to check it up :)

[Tero]

The Taigas are reverse porros. Here is an Opticron 8x25. Somebody here had a pair.
http://cameras.pricegrabber.co.uk/bi...rs/m/60708868/

[kristoffer]

Originally Posted by Tero

The Taigas are reverse porros. Here is an Opticron 8x25. Somebody here had a pair.
http://cameras.pricegrabber.co.uk/bi...rs/m/60708868/

You prefer roofs even in this price range?

[Tero]

Oh, no, I have tried them all, believe me. I just assumed you wanted smaller. If you want to try reverse porros, look at Vortex Vanquish as well. 8x.

[kristoffer]

Originally Posted by Tero

Oh, no, I have tried them all, believe me. I just assumed you wanted smaller. If you want to try reverse porros, look at Vortex Vanquish as well. 8x.

oki :) i did not really look at the size difference between that porro and the roofs you linked too.

[MacGee]

I can second Pete on the quality of the Taiga; I have the Olympus PC I 8x25, which is exactly the same thing. In fact, like him, I often reach for the Olympus and leave the 8x42 behind. As well as having amazingly sharp optics, it focuses down to 1.5m, though the specs say 2.5m. The only strike against it is its 6° FOV, but I find the view so easy and natural, I don't mind that. The Olympus has another strike against it, in that it's two-tone silver and grey. I would much prefer the Taiga's all-black finish, but the Olympus (off eBay) cost less than half what the Taiga would have, so I just put up with that. There's one on eBay UK at the moment standing at £29.99 (+£8.50 to Sweden).

Roofs in your price range are a bit less bulky, but personally I would rather accept a bit of bulk than a significant loss of performance. Even if you were to pay double (?) and get the Nikon HG L 8x20, you'd still have to accept some loss! Here's what Kimmo has to say about the Taiga as compared with the Nikon and Leica Ultravid 8x20:

The Taiga’s image quality is first rate for a miniature binocular. It is by a narrow margin the sharpest binocular in this test

He does go on to complain about the small FOV (fair enough) and of "a twisting of the image while panning," which I must say I've never noticed.

Michael

[ronh]

The bulky shape of reverse porro compacts largely defeats the purpose of having a compact. Bitter experience talking here. I'd much rather have an instrument of lower optical quality that really fits in my pocket than my approaching-spherical Nikon Travelite V, despite its stunning images, and smokin' build quality and ergonomics. Seriously, what a piece of trash. It's OK for concerts where the only light in the house is a spotlight on the performer, but that's about it. Sorry, I just needed to tell somebody.
Ron

[Kevin Purcell]

The size versus quality debate is a difficult one.

The quality in this price range is with the reverse porros. And I don't think that changes until you get the compacts from the Euro3 (though it might I haven't tried all of them).

Like Tero I've found cheap roofs to be not very good. Vortex Hurricane went back because of stray light issues more than anything else but as ronh says that is often a problem with compacts.

The Vortex Fury 8x28 is almost there in size (not tried it!) but the optics should be a notch up on the Hurricane and the weight is very low (12oz).

The Vanquish does look good.

And of course the chunky Bushnell 8x28 actually don't look too bad (a pair arrived yesterday but I haven't tried them seriously yet) for $50! It won't fit in your trouser pocket but it would fit in a jacket pocket. It is smaller than a regular big bin and I find it fits my hands well and the weight is not too bad (14oz). The small roofs seem to end up with a finger tip grip: that and the light weight increases the shake for me.

http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=5375

So there is a complicated set of trade offs here.

BTW, you did read the 8x28ish compact thread I started a few days ago ... specs, comparisons and user comments there too.

http://birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=121958

Searching is your friend

[kristoffer]

Originally Posted by Kevin Purcell

The size versus quality debate is a difficult one.

The quality in this price range is with the reverse porros. And I don't think that changes until you get the compacts from the Euro3 (though it might I haven't tried all of them).

Like Tero I've found cheap roofs to be not very good. Vortex Hurricane went back because of stray light issues more than anything else but as ronh says that is often a problem with compacts.

The Vortex Fury 8x28 is almost there in size (not tried it!) but the optics should be a notch up on the Hurricane and the weight is very low (12oz).

The Vanquish does look good.

And of course the chunky Bushnell 8x28 actually don't look too bad (a pair arrived yesterday but I haven't tried them seriously yet) for $50! It won't fit in your trouser pocket but it would fit in a jacket pocket. It is smaller than a regular big bin and I find it fits my hands well and the weight is not too bad (14oz). The small roofs seem to end up with a finger tip grip: that and the light weight increases the shake for me.

http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=5375

So there is a complicated set of trade offs here.

BTW, you did read the 8x28ish compact thread I started a few days ago ... specs, comparisons and user comments there too.

http://birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=121958

Searching is your friend

Thanks for your reply. Yes of course i read your thread, very interesting! I just wanted everyones input to this subject.

[kristoffer]

Originally Posted by MacGee

I can second Pete on the quality of the Taiga; I have the Olympus PC I 8x25, which is exactly the same thing. In fact, like him, I often reach for the Olympus and leave the 8x42 behind. As well as having amazingly sharp optics, it focuses down to 1.5m, though the specs say 2.5m. The only strike against it is its 6° FOV, but I find the view so easy and natural, I don't mind that. The Olympus has another strike against it, in that it's two-tone silver and grey. I would much prefer the Taiga's all-black finish, but the Olympus (off eBay) cost less than half what the Taiga would have, so I just put up with that. There's one on eBay UK at the moment standing at £29.99 (+£8.50 to Sweden).

Roofs in your price range are a bit less bulky, but personally I would rather accept a bit of bulk than a significant loss of performance. Even if you were to pay double (?) and get the Nikon HG L 8x20, you'd still have to accept some loss! Here's what Kimmo has to say about the Taiga as compared with the Nikon and Leica Ultravid 8x20:

The Taiga’s image quality is first rate for a miniature binocular. It is by a narrow margin the sharpest binocular in this test

He does go on to complain about the small FOV (fair enough) and of "a twisting of the image while panning," which I must say I've never noticed.

Michael

Thanks for your input. :) Olympus looks very good, just unsure if i can live with the size.

[PYRTLE]

NIKON Travelite "EX" (Waterproof) 8 x 25 reverse porro or Sportstar "EX" 8 x 25 roof prism thrown into the equation

[Kevin Purcell]

Originally Posted by kristoffer

Thanks for your reply. Yes of course i read your thread, very interesting! I just wanted everyones input to this subject.

Of course.

Whatever you get consider writing up a review for here!

[jimtrader11]

If your budget could stretch a bit, you might also consider the Zeiss Conquest 8x20. It is very sharp, light weight and small enough to go in a pants pocket and not look strange or uncomfortable. I have it and take it anytime I want a pocket binocular. it is selling for about $300 new on *bay, however, you may be able to find it used for considerably less. I think it compares well to the Nikon HGL, and Leica Trinovid/Ultravid image wise, and is easier to carry.

[Tero]

Yes, fine glass. For a pocket. Only it has rubber eye cups. Otherwise worth a few hundred. Nikon 8x20 LX also.

[Alexis Powell]

I'm not a big fan of the Zeiss 8x20 Conquest (very plastic build, poor strap attachment design) because I'm not a big fan of optical compromises, but unfortunately the Zeiss 8x20 Victory and Leica 8x20 Ultravid, both of which have a much nicer builds and optics, are nowadays much more expensive. But if you want a truly pocketable bino with optics that will actually perform well enough to make it worth carrying, I agree that the Zeiss 8x20 Conquest would be a good choice, especially if you really can find it for $300. Failing that, I'd either go with a bigger bin (a good 7 or 8x26 reverse porro) or find a used older Leica (recent vintage Trinovid) or Zeiss (late vintage Classic or Design Selection). I've yet to use a pocket roof cheaper than the Zeiss 8x20 Conquest that I would trust to do the job optically.

--AP

[jimtrader11]

It does have rubber fold down eye cups but I wear glasses (thin) and can see the whole FOV with no problem.
As Alexis says they are more plastic (but its a strong plastic :) )than the higher end Leica and Zeiss Victory but then again if you dont pay too much for them, you can take them places you might hesitate to take a Leica or Zeiss Victory. The Leica Trinovid 8x20 is both bulkier to carry (partly because of the way they fold) and a bit heavier.

Another candidate you might consider is a pair of used Leica 10x25 Trinovids. They are larger than the Zeiss 8x20 but made of all metal and rubber (except for the transparent parts). I found a pair on *bay for $300 buy it now about 9 months ago that were well used (a few tiny scratches on objectives) but otherwise in quite good shape. They are also one of my favorite compacts with a very nice image. They will fit well in a jacket pocket but make quite a lump in a pair of pants. One just went on *bay for $315 (Item 110283019715). Down side for me is close focus is about 16 ft and they are only water resistant like the Zeiss Conquest 8x20

[bitterntwisted]

Kristoffer,

The Taigas are the best of the reverse porros in terms of image quality. I tried them all and went with them, BUT... I found they were in practice too large to be a genuine pocket, take-anywhere pair, and I had problems with the central hinge and they were repaired twice (must say that In Focus and Opticron's service was absolutely excellent - quick, communicative, and free)

So I traded for the Delta Compact BGAs 8x24 shown here http://www.at-infocus.co.uk/reviews_minis.html - these are truly tiny, shirt-pocket bins and are much more robust than the Opticrons. The image is, to my eyese, at least as good if not better.

Graham

[vkalia]

The Taigas, as suggested, are very good binos. Another option is the Vortex Fury 8x28s.

Both fit into the outer pocket of cargo shorts/pants, and are light and easy to use. The Furies, despite their small exit pupil, are surprisingly easy on the eyes. I do a fair bit of birding with them when I am out with my dogs.

The Taigas are not waterproof, AFAIK. But they are a bit lighter and a bit more compact... and may even have a slight edge in terms of sharpness (although nothing I can swear to).

You cannot go wrong with either of these 2 binos though - both have more than adequate quality for birding.

Vandit

[Pete Mella]

Originally Posted by bitterntwisted

I found they were in practice too large to be a genuine pocket, take-anywhere pair

True, I must admit I wore them round my neck most of the summer, which defeats the purpose as set out by the OP. They won't fit in shirt or trouser pockets, unless you're wearing big-pocketed combats.

As the autumn creeps in and the jackets come out they'll become pocket binoculars again!

[Fireform]

I have to concur on the Zeiss 8x20s. They're featherweights and very small, have good image quality and are quite rugged. They really do work well as a pocket bin, and the belt pouch is great too. I had a pair of 10x25s that rode around in my bag and on my belt for a few years, and when I decided to sell them they cleaned up like new. You can find them new for under $300 (or the 8x20 T*P* classics, which are really the same bin). They have a transferable lifetime warranty, so I wouldn't shy away from a clean used pair either, and that would save you some $$$.

[kristoffer]

Originally Posted by bitterntwisted

Kristoffer,

The Taigas are the best of the reverse porros in terms of image quality. I tried them all and went with them, BUT... I found they were in practice too large to be a genuine pocket, take-anywhere pair, and I had problems with the central hinge and they were repaired twice (must say that In Focus and Opticron's service was absolutely excellent - quick, communicative, and free)

So I traded for the Delta Compact BGAs 8x24 shown here http://www.at-infocus.co.uk/reviews_minis.html - these are truly tiny, shirt-pocket bins and are much more robust than the Opticrons. The image is, to my eyese, at least as good if not better.

Graham

Thanks everyone for the tips. Since I cant try any smaller bins IRL due to lack of stores here i am totally dependent on your information.

The Taigas seem really good but i´ve done some thinking and i really cant compromise with the size. They have to fit inside smaller pockets too. So then I am stuck with smaller roofs I guess.

My options then seem to be:
Pentax DCF SW 8x25
Vortex Fury 8x28
Nikon Sportstar "EX" 8 x 25
Zeiss Conquest 8x20 (They seem a bit too price though when several of the others cost $130-150).

[kristoffer]

Originally Posted by Kevin Purcell

Of course.

Whatever you get consider writing up a review for here!

Yes I will try to do that but I wont reach your review standards, i just don't know so much about bins :)