[Justin]

I have recently checked out the Swarovski 7x42slc and 8x30slc, along with the Leica 8x32bn and 8x42bn. I have also looked at the Leica Ultra 8x42. I am trying to choose the best all around binocular. I'll be using them for various activities and am looking for the best multi-purpose. Any comments?

[Leif]

Originally Posted by Justin

I have recently checked out the Swarovski 7x42slc and 8x30slc, along with the Leica 8x32bn and 8x42bn. I have also looked at the Leica Ultra 8x42. I am trying to choose the best all around binocular. I'll be using them for various activities and am looking for the best multi-purpose. Any comments?

If you want to watch dragonflies and other insects, then you really want at least 3m close focus, and preferably 2.5m. If you want to use them in more extreme lighting conditions, then you need an 8x42 (or 7x42) roof prism (or Nikon 8x32 SE which to my eyes is as bright as 8x42 roofs). If you wear eye glasses, then you really need at least 15mm eye relief.

Mid-sized roof prism bins are compact and light, at the expense of resolution and brightness, thus they are not so good in dark woods and at dawn and dusk. I see a lot about, so they are clearly very popular. You have to ask yourself whether you really need compact and light at the expense of the optics. Mid-sized roof prism bins tend to have less eye relief than a full-sized instrument. They also have smaller exit pupils which makes it a little harder to align the opical axes with your eyes.

Full sized roof prism bins are heavier and bulkier, but in my opinion the extra weight is not significant unless it exceeds ~800g. (That of course is a subjective judgement on my part.) They will be more useful in low light, and will resolve more detail, which is noticeable when for example observing in a hide.

It is very important how binoculars feel in your hands and how comfortable you feel using them. The shape of the eye tubes might not match your face, or you might find the materials used for the armour unpleasant. They might be too heavy for you, or you might have big hands, and find a small binocular fiddly to use. Or you might find the focus too coarse, or too fine. The Leica 8x42 BN always gets rave reviews, but to me it has the ergonomics of a brick! I suspect I have smaller than average hands. I hated the original Zeiss 8x40 Victory due to the small lugs at the side of the eyepieces. This 'fault' has been rectified in the Zeiss 8x40 Victory II.

The Swaro 8.5x42 EL and the Leica Ultravid 8x42 combine class leading optics with good ergonomics, and modest weight, although the Swaro has a rather fine focus that some do not like. The Nikon 8x42 HG has a bit too much chromatic aberration for my tastes, but is a fine instrument, despite being a bit of a fatso. The Zeiss 8x40 Victory II does not seem to get as much attention as the others, but it has excellent optics, and is noticeably lighter, and a bit cheaper too.

In short, try them for yourself, preferably at a specialist dealers with viewing facilities i.e. an open window through which you can observe birds with a selection of bins.

[tomreid24]

Justin,
From your choices I believe the best all rounder will be the leica 8x42 ultravid.This binocular is light,fits well in the hand and gives a bright image.
The swaro 7x42 is a bit heavier, has an excellent f.o.v. and resolution but sometimes 7x just isn't enough mag' unless backed up with a scope.
The 8x30 i've never tried.
The leica 8x32 is a great wee binocular.I use one and chose it over the 8x42 as it was much lighter , fitted my hands better, gave as good,if not better ,view.Although I chose it as my 2nd pair as I had already had swaro 10x42els.
The swaro 8x32el is also a cracker of a binocular, you really have to try it to believe it.
Tom.

[Sleeper]

How about the sworo 8x32 ELs? Have you any experience of these Leif?

[Leif]

Originally Posted by Sleeper

How about the sworo 8x32 ELs? Have you any experience of these Leif?

I have peeked through a pair, but I've not tried them properly. They have better eye relief than the Leica 8x32 BN, and seem to have better correction for chromatic aberration. I have no idea how the brightness and sharpness are, though I would guess that they are no sharper than the Leica 8x32 BN (and the Nikon, Swaro SLC and Zeiss competitors). The magazine reviews I've seen seem to say "Cor, wow" which does not tell me much. I wish they would say something useful e.g. "as bright as the Nikon 8x32 HG, and just as sharp" or whatever. I had my fortieth birthday last year and could have had a pair of the Swaro 8x32 EL, but chose the Swaro 8.5x42 EL. My personal subjective biased choice is for the larger bin.

[Justin]

Thanks a lot for your responses. Your input is much appreciated. I believe my decision would be much easier if only Swarovski made an 8x42slc. I've looked at the EL's and loved them, but the price is a little steep. For what I can spend, I am split between the Swarovski 7x42's, the Leica Trinovid 8x32 or 8x42 and the Leica Ultravid 8x42. I am not really experienced with binoculars and from what I could tell, they were all competitively close. Each having there own strengths and flaws. I should mention that I will be using these a lot for hunting. I will be viewing animals from between 100-250 yds. out. Anymore input you can offer is very much appreciated. Thanks!

[Art Thorn]

Hi Justin. Why not check out some of the web sites where several top birders have spent an intensive day or two comparing top models? Just search for 'binocular review' and you will find plenty of choises. I started at 'better view desired', and it is as good a starting point as any.

[Jonathan B.]

Originally Posted by Justin

I have recently checked out the Swarovski 7x42slc and 8x30slc, along with the Leica 8x32bn and 8x42bn. I have also looked at the Leica Ultra 8x42. I am trying to choose the best all around binocular. I'll be using them for various activities and am looking for the best multi-purpose. Any comments?

Justin, I don't know where in Texas you are, or where you were able to handle binoculars, but if you don't already know, Wild Birds Unlimited in the University Park area of Dallas has--or at least until recently had--a great selection of high-end binoculars that they would allow you to handle and compare. In Norman, OK, Christopher's also has an excellent selection and will let you handle and compare. Both shops have prices that match the best you can get on the Internet.

I bought my Nikon Superior E 8x32 at the WBU in Dallas about 3 1/2 years ago. As Leif says, these are as sharp and bright as the most expensive 8x42 roof prism binoculars. The drawbacks to the SE are that they are not waterproof and they have rubber eyecups, rather than pop-up or twist-up cups. They are superior optically to the Leica 8x32 BN Ultra (I believed that when I originally compared them, and I renewed my opinion after comparing them again about two weeks ago).

I echo Leif's and a couple other people's suggestions. Based on my own handling and resulting opinions (mind you, opinions only--you must try them yourself), the finest all around binoculars are the Leica Ultravid 8x42 and 7x42, Swarovski 8x32 EL (optically barely distinguishable from Nikon SE, but a jewel for its size and ergonomics), and Zeiss Victory II 8x40. I have stated elsewhere in these forums why I don't like other models of binocular, and I don't use 10x.

My last purchase was Leica Ultravid 7x42. I have now used it for about 100 hours, and I'm amazed by its performance and handling every time I use it. I don't think the Zeiss Victory has quite the resolution or contrast that the Ultravid has, but the difference is slight, and my opinion may be subjective, so you really should compare. The ergonomics of the two are extremely similar.

[pduxon]

Originally Posted by Justin

Thanks a lot for your responses. Your input is much appreciated. I believe my decision would be much easier if only Swarovski made an 8x42slc. I've looked at the EL's and loved them, but the price is a little steep. For what I can spend, I am split between the Swarovski 7x42's, the Leica Trinovid 8x32 or 8x42 and the Leica Ultravid 8x42. I am not really experienced with binoculars and from what I could tell, they were all competitively close. Each having there own strengths and flaws. I should mention that I will be using these a lot for hunting. I will be viewing animals from between 100-250 yds. out. Anymore input you can offer is very much appreciated. Thanks!

check out the reviews on www.betterviewdesired.com

I'd have a look at the Nikon Venturer LX 8x32 (hope that's right they have a different name over here).They're review on the above site.

Whatever you do try the bins and buy the one you think best.

[scampo]

Originally Posted by Justin

I have recently checked out the Swarovski 7x42slc and 8x30slc, along with the Leica 8x32bn and 8x42bn. I have also looked at the Leica Ultra 8x42. I am trying to choose the best all around binocular. I'll be using them for various activities and am looking for the best multi-purpose. Any comments?

I have Swaro 8.5ELs, but a very experienced and discerning friend recently chose Nikon HG42 against these (he was changing from Leica 8x42BN) any others - unlike Leif he fails to detect any chromatic aberration and think the Nikons render natural colours more faithfully than nay other make. Nikon also cost a fait bit less than the ELs if money is an issue - and it usually is!

In the US Nikon are very highly regarded. My own favourite Nikon is their 8x32HG - a wonderful binocular.

[Leif]

Originally Posted by scampo

I have Swaro 8.5ELs, but a very experienced and discerning friend recently chose Nikon HG42 against these (he was changing from Leica 8x42BN) any others - unlike Leif he fails to detect any chromatic aberration and think the Nikons render natural colours more faithfully than nay other make. Nikon also cost a fait bit less than the ELs if money is an issue - and it usually is!

In the US Nikon are very highly regarded. My own favourite Nikon is their 8x32HG - a wonderful binocular.

I think the fact that several people disagree about the Nikons shows how important it is to try them for yourself!

Steve Ingraham has an interesting letter from an experienced observer regarding chromatic aberration:

http://betterviewdesired.com/chabletter.html

I thought I was going a bit potty as I did not like the Leica 8x32 BN due to excessive CA and yet all the magazine reviews said "Wow" or words to that effect.

[scampo]

Leif

I can make my Swaros show excessive CA easily by looking through them at certain angles against the light. I'm pretty certain (and I did look for a good time!) that the Swaros are similar to the Nikons in this respect.

[Leif]

Originally Posted by scampo

Leif

I can make my Swaros show excessive CA easily by looking through them at certain angles against the light. I'm pretty certain (and I did look for a good time!) that the Swaros are similar to the Nikons in this respect.

Steve: Almost all bins seem to show some CA with one or two exceptions e.g. Takahashi 20x60. I tested the Leica 8x32 BN and the Nikon 8x32 HG against the Swaro 8.5x42 and I saw much less CA through the Swaro. I bought a pair of the Nikon 8x32 HG but sold them within the month (I lost £150) because I found the CA interfered with observing and was annoying me too much. I also didn't like the associated lack of purity of the colours (a noticeable magenta cast). I now own Swaro 8.5x42 and they are much much better IMO.

However, I accept that I am in the minority and most people consider the Nikon and Leica 8x32's to be superb. I wish I was in that group because the little Nikon's are otherwise superb bins.

[gorank]

Originally Posted by Justin

Thanks a lot for your responses. Your input is much appreciated. I believe my decision would be much easier if only Swarovski made an 8x42slc. I've looked at the EL's and loved them, but the price is a little steep. For what I can spend, I am split between the Swarovski 7x42's, the Leica Trinovid 8x32 or 8x42 and the Leica Ultravid 8x42. I am not really experienced with binoculars and from what I could tell, they were all competitively close. Each having there own strengths and flaws. I should mention that I will be using these a lot for hunting. I will be viewing animals from between 100-250 yds. out. Anymore input you can offer is very much appreciated. Thanks!

The 8x42 Ultravids or the 7x42 swarovski may be a better choise (than the swarovski 8.5x42) becuse of their higher contrast in low light due to the anti-reflective coating and bigger exit pupil.
BUT the Swarovski 8,5x42 is an ergonomic dream and very nice to look into...a bit slow focus wheel though..but that shouldnt bother you if animals are your main target.
And the 7x42 Swarovski seems a bit heavy to me.

[gorank]

Originally Posted by Leif

However, I accept that I am in the minority and most people consider the Nikon and Leica 8x32's to be superb. I wish I was in that group because the little Nikon's are otherwise superb bins.

I have used the 8x32 BN Leica for several years and I can NOT say that they are superb bins...

The most positive with this binos is that they have good contrast.

The negative is that the sharpness of the view is low halfway from the center and out.
And the CA is disturbing me often (flying birds, birds against sky, bird in a tree top etc..).

In bad light the vignettning is also disturbing. (This could be an effect in combination with glasses and difficulty to get full FOV.)
In my opinion they are not very good with eye glasses. The eye relief is only 14 mm. And its not comfortable when you need to push the binos/glasses into your eyes. I had to make some modified glasses to see 100% of the FOV.

Still the Leica 8x32 BN:s are decent and very compact binos.

Today I would probably buy the 8x32 Swarovski or the Nikon HG 8x32 if I would by a pair in this size category. Both are better with glasses, they got an easier view and they are good binos...but superb?? No, I would not say...not in all light conditions..

[Leif]

Originally Posted by gorank

I have used the 8x32 BN Leica for several years and I can NOT say that they are superb bins...

And I thought I was alone in not liking the Leica 8x32 BN! Sounds like you should write a review of them for this site. In the UK I see loads of Leica 8x32 BN/BA. I have never understood why. Maybe it is the social kudos.

Are they popular in Sweden too?

[scampo]

It's not that you are in any minority (except of one like us all...!), it's just that the very reasons you got rid of your bins are the binary opposite of why a good friend chose Nikon 8x42HG against Leica (which he had already) and Swaro. I think it could be that you had a faulty pair - maybe that had been dropped.

Another birder loves the Nikon except for the rain cover (?) and so bought Swaro. He too felt the Nikon gave no noticeable CA.

Odd eh? But there we are! I shall investigate further...

[gorank]

Originally Posted by Leif

And I thought I was alone in not liking the Leica 8x32 BN! Sounds like you should write a review of them for this site. In the UK I see loads of Leica 8x32 BN/BA. I have never understood why. Maybe it is the social kudos.

Are they popular in Sweden too?

Here in Sweden its very much a question about being a Leica-ist OR a Swarovski-ist...if your are into the material and superficial aspects of birding...=)

I sometimes see 8x32 Leicas but the 8/10x42 models are definitely the most common. The Swarovski-EL is still increasing rapidly, but the Nikon is a very rare bird here...to heavy or maybe exotic for the average viking I guess...=)

[marcus]

Originally Posted by gorank

I have used the 8x32 BN Leica for several years and I can NOT say that they are superb bins...

The most positive with this binos is that they have good contrast.

The negative is that the sharpness is low halfway from the center and out.
And the CA is disturbing me often (flying birds, birds against sky, bird in a tree top etc..).

In bad light the vignettning is also disturbing - they dont deliver enough light...)

They are not very good with eye glasses either (I had to make some modified glasses to see 100% of the FOV)

Still the Leica are descent binos.

Today I would probably buy the 8x32 Swarovski or the Nikon HG 8x32 if I would by a pair in this size category. Both are better with glasses and good binos...but superb?? No, I would not say...

Gorank
Whats vignetting? Darkness?
marcus

[Leif]

Originally Posted by gorank

Here in Sweden its very much a question about being a Leica-ist OR a Swarovski-ist...if your are into the material and superficial aspects of birding...=)

I sometimes see 8x32 Leicas but the 8/10x42 models are definitely the most common. The Swarovski-EL is still increasing rapidly, but the Nikon is a very rare bird here...to heavy or maybe exotic for the average viking I guess...=)

I have the impression that the Nikon 8x42 are becoming more popular here although I see far more Leica, Swaro and Zeiss BGAT. Oddly enough I have never seen a Zeiss Victory in the field. Maybe here magazine reviews determine purchases. Sad if true given how rubbish such reviews are.

[Sleeper]

Who needs magazine reviews eh!

Scampo how do you rate the various optics when wearing glasses? I find most optics seem to have problems one way or another. Can anybody explain the reason why those with glasses seem to get a rougher ride?

[marcus]

Sleeper, here's one.
Trying to line the binocular pupil up with my eye can be annoying since I wear glasses.
At least the binoculars I have.
marcus

[scampo]

"Who needs magazine reviews eh! Scampo how do you rate the various optics when wearing glasses?... Sleeper"

I couldn't agree more. The only binoculars I can truly say I feel entirely comfortably using while I wear my (long-sighted) specs on is Nikon's Sporter 8x36s. My own Swaro EL8.5s hardly allow a full view so I find myself removing them 90% of the time. Same with scopes - my Nikon ED82 allows a lovely full FOV - but only at at 25x, my son's Swaro 65, only at 20x. So frustrating - I think I'll have to buy one of those things that you hang your glasses on - as pretentious as I have always thought they looked!

When I read how so many binos and scopes state that they allow the use of specs, I often wonder what's wrong with my own!

[scampo]

Originally Posted by Leif

I have the impression that the Nikon 8x42 are becoming more popular here although I see far more Leica, Swaro and Zeiss BGAT. Oddly enough I have never seen a Zeiss Victory in the field. Maybe here magazine reviews determine purchases. Sad if true given how rubbish such reviews are.

A friend owns a camera shop that sells many scopes and binos - but not many "birding" binos. It always surprises me that most binos sold are probably not to birdwatchers! So, it might be that Zeiss are very popular, say, with race goers or sailing types? Mind you - once upon a little while ago, I envied the many birders whoi had Zeiss around their necks. Fashion, huh? Or crafty marketing! I think I bought my Nikon ED82 partly out of contempt for the fashionable brands - and I'm sure their binos are up their with the very best if not ahead of them!

[marcus]

Really Steve? I once read that birders are the main customers of binoculars, but I guess that may have just been advertising.