[mark22c]

can anyone enlighten me as to the quality of some older russian bins? the particular model im interested in merely as a collector is a BPC5 8x30 porro stamped made in the USSR.
i just bid and won a pair for the princely sum of £15 and am awaiting delivery. went out on a bit of a limb as i dont know an awfull lot about russian stuff apart from some of it is very good.
any information regarding coatings and performance would be great as well as any models to look out for or avoid

thanks mark

[ksbird/foxranch]

The current BPC5 is listed as multicoated when you go to the web page shown in info by Holger Merlitz. [i] have a series of them and all of them are sharp to the point of ridiculum, although the older ones are not water resistant, the new ones say they are, although not waterproof.

In general I have found them to be lightweight even going back a few models/versions. The bridge may not be tight on some I've heard, but mine are all excellent. I don't wear eyeglasses but some reviews say this is difficult when using this binocular.

All in all my BPC5s are fast handling, low cost, lightweight, and very sharp. The field of view isn't the widest in my collection but it is very good. I now have 4 pairs and none has given me or any other user a problem. I have Nikon E and E11 8x30s and they are very good as well, in fact likely better but that isn't always obvious. I don't have the 8x32 SE. I do have many other 8x30 bins because it is my favorite size for birding. Good luck and have fun.

[mark22c]

i've been looking back through old posts here and on other forums and seen conflicting revues. i am however looking foward to recieving the pair i won in the post to see for myself.
some report a mild or strong yellow cast and variation in coatings from seemingly none to fully multi coated, i have heard of a multi coating proccess that leaves the lenses seemingly clear. but why the strong yellow cast? is this an intentional thing similar to yellow filters found on rifle scopes to cut through haze? seems strange as they come with filters that fit into the eyepeices for this. maybe its an aging proccess? or the reviewer had filters already attached with out reallising it?

[alan_rymer]

I have also won a pair of USSR labelled 8x30 Zeiss lookalikes( just under £6 including postage ) . I have had a search around but can find no information about the logo. First place I looked was Merlitz's site, but no go.
Any info on these anyone.
The bins themselves have quite a pleasing view, with no obvious yellow cast, no fungi and quite clean though dusty. They came in a leather case with a stamp in the lid by the hinge of VI 1984, and OTK 21 on the fastener. The only thing wrong with the bins was the three screws holding the diopter setting were loose so it just rotated, and the centre hinge is very stiff.

[iporali]

Originally Posted by alan_rymer

Any info on these anyone.
The bins themselves have quite a pleasing view, with no obvious yellow cast, no fungi and quite clean though dusty. They came in a leather case with a stamp in the lid by the hinge of VI 1984, and OTK 21 on the fastener. The only thing wrong with the bins was the three screws holding the diopter setting were loose so it just rotated, and the centre hinge is very stiff.

Alan & Mark,

I bought my wife a pair of those back in early 80's. They were hand picked from a large shipment, where there were several poorly collimated or assembled (eg. loose eyepieces) samples - some of them had a very stiff center hinge, and if I remember correctly, it was due to black paint on the hinge surfaces (some russian vaselines also tend to turn into glue over time). Ours do have quite obvious yellow cast - and if that is not enough, there are even two yellow clip-on filters to enhance the effect . Our sample is also quite pleasing to look through and sharp at the central FOV, but its short ER and non-adjustable eyecups don't permit the use of eyeglasses. In our binoculars there are some internal uncoated glass (prism?) surfaces and its light transmission is more than a little lower than eg. the Nikon SE's. It also took about two years for us to get rid of (or used to) its smell.

I would guess that with some mechanical servicing, cleaning and proper lubrication you should be able to get a nice and reliable pair of bins out of them. I honestly think they are worth much more than what you have paid for them.

Best regards,

Ilkka

[mark22c]

hi alan

yours look the same as the pair i won marked made in USSR. im just itching to take a look at them but have to wait for the postman, should be any day.
what seems to be the cause of the yellow cast? is it the coatings or just an aging process?
the pair i won were manufactured in 1989 according to the listing.
what are the coatings like on your pair alan, can you tell if their multi coated?

[Kevin Purcell]

Originally Posted by mark22c

what seems to be the cause of the yellow cast? is it the coatings or just an aging process?

The original (ex-)Soviet military (independent focus) bin the yellow cast is deliberate effect to increase acuity from a yellow tinted lens in the eyepiece.

http://www.holgermerlitz.de/edf7x40.html
http://binofan.home.att.net/komz.htm

Originally Posted by binofan

The eyepiece design is the most sophisticated I have seen in a handheld binocular, with 7 elements in a 2-1-3-1 configuration (see the picture below). This is very similar to the eyepiece design used in the Russian 30x180 binocular*. A negative field lens is employed to help reduce field curvature and other aberrations, as in the Nagler eyepiece design. The eyepiece in the KOMZ is not exactly like a Nagler but looks more derived from the Abbe Orthoscopic design with its triplet. The triplet has a yellow element, resulting in noticeably yellow images. I am not sure if this was deliberate for military requirements or if a special glass type was selected to improve optical performance. It is also possible that there is an aspheric surface employed, as the rectilinear distortion is practically zero. Note that the view through these binoculars has a "rolling ball" effect (as the image rolls off the edge) also seen in other low distortion designs. At any rate, the image is very sharp with pinpoint star images nearly to the edge.

I don't believe the radiation resistant glass theory.

http://www.holgermerlitz.de/kronos10x50.html

They sometimes omit (or reduce) this in the civilian (usually center focus) versions.

See also

http://binofan.home.att.net/rum8x30.htm
http://binofan.home.att.net/rus6x24.htm

[alan_rymer]

Thanks for the info Ilkka & Kevin.
Mark
The Lenses are certainly coated ( a faint Blue on the Objective and a Purple blush on the eyepices ), how to tell if multicoated?.
I think I can detect a faint yellow cast when comparing with my Smith & Wesson 8x32 ( RSPB BG PC lookalikes ).

[ksbird/foxranch]

I have all of the Russian binoculars mentioned by Holger Merlitz and many others. The Tento, Berkut and Ukrainian Yukon models are also excellent, but the Baigish 8x30 and 10x40 and unbelievably good for their low cost. I also have the 7x30 and it does use Sfgr3 radiation responsive glass that has a very strong yellow tint. The normal Baigish models with CF use a less yellow version of this glass in their complex eyepieces.

The Tento, Berkut and Yukon binoculars seem to use less complex (Zeiss copy) eyepieces and standard multicoatings, so the yellow tiny is not obvious (if it is there at all). Other eastern bloc binoculars from CZJ and D&D (then becoming Vd/Meopta) don't seem to demonstrate this coloration. IOR Valdosta bins from Rumania are in the same quality range and the Polish 8.5x45 bins are quite good as well.

In spite of the yellowish cast the Russian bins show I think that they are at the top of my list for quality porros at low prices, along with Yukon Futuras (the 7x50W is spectacular) and CZJ late model bins are nearly as good and nearly as low in price. Newcom marketed some of the Russian roofers that were/are rugged, waterproof and ultra-lightweight but much more expensive than their porros. I have a pair of the 7x35 Newcom roofers and they are super multi/phase/coated and weigh less than 7 ounces, but I am not much of a roofer fan and the Tento and Berkut 7x35 porros are as good (though much heavier).

The Tento 20x60 is an excellent bin even though I haven't kept the pair I once had. The objective tubes are quite long and the internal reflections are kept to a minimum due to multiple baffles. The multicoatings are excellent as well and with a very high FR (about F8) the image is sharp across the field. Pentax makes an excellent 20x60 now and Yukon's 20x50 is very good too,. The older Bushnell 20x60 Custom was only heavily single coated all the way through, but it's performance is still great by today's standards. All of these bins work best on a tripod from a firm surface, and they have an advantage over 20x80 bins (or 20/25x100 bins) if you intend to move around with the bins mounted on your tripod. All of these are much more relaxing on the eyes than spotters.

[stuart C smith]

Originally Posted by alan_rymer

I have also won a pair of USSR labelled 8x30 Zeiss lookalikes( just under £6 including postage ) . I have had a search around but can find no information about the logo. First place I looked was Merlitz's site, but no go.
Any info on these anyone.
The bins themselves have quite a pleasing view, with no obvious yellow cast, no fungi and quite clean though dusty. They came in a leather case with a stamp in the lid by the hinge of VI 1984, and OTK 21 on the fastener. The only thing wrong with the bins was the three screws holding the diopter setting were loose so it just rotated, and the centre hinge is very stiff.

alan, kazan optical-mechanical factory, komz also sign their binoculars baigish.

[seawatcher]

Originally Posted by alan_rymer

I have also won a pair of USSR labelled 8x30 Zeiss lookalikes( just under £6 including postage ) . I have had a search around but can find no information about the logo. First place I looked was Merlitz's site, but no go.
Any info on these anyone.
The bins themselves have quite a pleasing view, with no obvious yellow cast, no fungi and quite clean though dusty. They came in a leather case with a stamp in the lid by the hinge of VI 1984, and OTK 21 on the fastener. The only thing wrong with the bins was the three screws holding the diopter setting were loose so it just rotated, and the centre hinge is very stiff.

Aha! I recognise those! I used to have a pair, they cost less than £20 back in the late 1980s. Me and my mates had a pair each - they were great back-up binocs or binocs you weren't bothered about trashing as they were so cheap. They have been on salein the past labelled from various manufacturers / factories. The ones we had were stamped Helios on the cardboard box. We called them GNUS, after what we interpreted the Russian letters to spell. And to add to that name - you could leave them out on the savannah and let a pack of gnus run over them and they would be unscathed. Mine lasted for about 5 years or so - and survived heatwaves, downpours, jam butties, kids, sand, falling off a car roof (more than once), falling out of my bicycle saddle-bag, being left in the garden for a week and more. But total submergence in water was their downfall. I didn't dry them properly and they went mouldy inside. Mine had a distinctive yellow tinge. Supplied with yellow clip-on filters and a leather strap that doubled as a trouser belt. You could use the rainguard to play tennis with it was so strong. I taped mine up with black insulating tape as the paint went all tacky after a year or so of use and they left terrible marks on clothing. Amazed these are still available.

[Hans Weigum]

Tento was in Soviet times a brand name of a trading company no longer existing today. They mainly dealt with optics manufactured by ZOMZ (located at Sergiev Posad, in Soviet times called Zagorsk). ZOMZ sells now under their own name Kronos.

[Kevin Purcell]

People interested in Russian bins may find this link (which is a collection of brief specs and photos for

• KOMZ (Kazansky optical-mechanical plant, Kazan, Russia) Trademark BAIGISH and FOTON.
• ZOMZ (Zagorsky optical-mechanical plant, Sergiev-Posa, Russia (was Zagorsk, USSR. Trademark KRONOS.
• Beltex Optic (Lida, Belarus). Trademark YUKON.

http://www.binoculars.ru/binocul.htm

ZOMZ have their own web site (which looks like a mix of Soviet and 1995 web design!)

http://zomz.sposad.ru/

KOMZ have a web site at

http://www.baigish.ru/eng/

Beltex lead with Yukon

http://www.yukonopticsglobal.com/

Aren't there (weren't there) optical makers in Ukraine?

Note that some of these bins e.g. FOTON 7x35 are made in China. I've seen them advertised by their Chinese OEMs for sale to resellers. It seems that these companies are now building stuff more to "regular" Western spec than previous designs (e.g. the FOTON's are geting more difficult to find ... perhaps that's why their licensed to the Chinese).

So ksbird are those Tento roof prisms really 7 oz as you mentioned on another thread? Or was that a typo for 17oz (which seems more reasonable)?

Newcon-optik.com now make (or have the Chinese make? One of their 8x30 bins looks like a United Optics bin) M22-oid bins for military or government use though do do sell civilian models without laser filters and reticules. I suspect these aren't Russian bins.

http://www.newcon-optik.com/regular_optics.html

Where do people buy their Russian bins? They all seem either too expensive or shady dealers or both

[ksbird/foxranch]

Kevin I have found that the best place to buy Russian/Soviet bins is in European flea markets. I looked at the Newcom site now and the offerings might be okay, but they are nothing like the 7x35 roofer I mentioned. That bin was made of all magnesium, it was small-ish and must have had the tiniest roof prism known to man internally. Since it was immersible and ultralightweight (a bit under 1/2 pound), I tried to loan it out to kids for a while (it was a CF model and pretty handy), but then Zeiss came out with the lightweight 8x30 Diafun and Leupold made th 6x30 Yosemite and the Russian 7x35 roofers got set aside. I'll try to get a photo and then enter it into the Gallery here along with the Diafun.

Now-a-days, I find that many people who traded to get Russian and Czech bins in Europe long ago are dumping them on eBay. I avoid anything made in the last 10 years normally, but I did spring a whole $29 incl shipping for a pair of Baigish 12x50s that were about the worst Russian bins I have ever had, but were still worth way more than $29. I mentioned these bins earlier in a different thread. Also Sportsmans Guide seems to have a line on Russian/Soviet bins. I bought 2 pairs of the Baigish 8x30 bins from them and now I think they have a Russian military 8x30 for sale. This stuff sells out quick though.

[mark22c]

thanks for the info/links kevin, i found holgermerlitz's home page enlightning, the information is very good. as an aside i even managed to find one pair (i think) of fake carl zeiss 8x30's on ebay item number 320312053367 with the help of the "how to spot fake jenoptems"

still havent recieved my bpc5's yet

cheers mark

[mark22c]

well i got them this morning, first impressions though unpacking and getting the first look at them left me a little underwhelmed, there were a few problems noticed before looking through them.
the eye piece bridges were loose, diopter was also loose as was the focus wheel with a fare amount of slop thrown in. general condition appeared good with most of the paint intact and lenses were scratch free and clean, they do look and feel well made.

all above problems were fixed with out to much hassle with the addition of two extra brass shims, one to take up the slop in the focus wheel which is now smooth and firm and one to take up the slack causing the loose ep bridges which are now tight.
tightning the three screws around the diopter a little has made it a little firmer and is now no longer a problem.

taking a look through them out the window made me feel better as the view was impressive. yes there is a slight yellow cast that can be seen in pic three through the objective against the carpet but no more so than on my lidle store bought £9.99 meade/bresser 10x50's infact i took them down the beach with me lunch time for a walk as it is a nice day and didnt really notice it at all.
they are collimated beautifully, the insides are clean and clear and the centre 50% of the fov is very sharp and the optics look to be well alighned with a very even comfortable image, the image quality does drop of towards the edge but its not to bad. dont seem to "notice" any CA or pincussion/barrel distortion. eye relief is not good though... if you need to ware glasses when viewing these wont suit you.
they look to be seeled with greasy leather washers on the eye piece sliding tubes and have a putty like substance seeling the front and rear plates as well as the objective lenses... rain and splash proof definatly if there kept ep up with a rain guard on but probably wouldnt survive a dunking?
objective lenses appear to have a single anti reflective coating with there blue tint and the eye piece glass seems to have a strong purple hue with a blue hint depending how the light hits them.
case is in very good nick, just a little dusty inside and date stamped 1989.

obviously they are not as sharp as my opticrons but still... they are impressive concidering how little they can cost.

after some minor repairs and a little external cleaning im very pleased with these for the money, they are far better than the usual cheap vintage offerings... why people bother buying new cheap sub £100 bins i dont know?

heres a few pics including one shot through the bins using a 2mp phone camera held up to the ep. notice the absence of any strong yellow hue!

cheers mark

[alan_rymer]

Mark

You seem to know a little more than me about the tech details of optics from you critique of the bins. I'm glad you think its money well spent after your few repair jobs on them.
Thanks!

[mark22c]

thanks alan, just been out as its a clear night and star tested them and they perform well they have quite a wide FOV and stars are sharp in the centre fov i guess they fall somewhere perfomance wise regarding sharpness between my cheap 10x50 bressers (that i used to "think" were quite sharp for astronomy compared to other cheap bins) and my opticrons (which "are" very sharp)
on a scale of one to ten (three being my bressers and nine being the opticrons) i'de put them at seven maybe seven and a half at a push. stars do start to fall apart around the last 15-20% fov.
these are quite handy for casual hand held obs of the night sky in bad LP areas.
dont know how bad the slight colour fringing would affect bird identification in tricky circumstances and there are sharper bins out there... but not bad for dawdling about with and saves ware on your good bins.

[mark22c]

i guess also the serial numbers first two digits represent the year of manufacture?
mine are stamped 1989 in the case and thats the first two digits in the serial number. alan says his are dated 84 in the case and first two numbers in his serial number are 84... am i making the right presumption here?
i may bid on another pair of these for my father as they come up very often on ebay and go inmost cases for under £10.... dont pay what i did £18... there sometimes going for 99p plus postage and packing for good examples! there are loads out there.

regards mark

[Bob A (SD)]

Just won a pair of ZOMC-Kronos BPWC2 6x30 bins with a 12.5° FOV. Here's a review: http://www.holgermerlitz.de/kronos6x30.html. Hopefully the optics in mine will match those Holger experienced. Should have them in hand in around 10 days.

[mark22c]

i got another pair today in the post, this time dated 1995. focuser was better on this pair they are collimated and they seem a little sharper than the first but even though they look new the build and finish isnt so good. left eyecup was spinning loose and needed tightning and eyepiece bridge was sloppy and needed a wider shim and there were gaps in the putty like seelant around the objectives and back plates, oh and the objective have differant colour coatings, left side is a golden hue and right side has a purple/blue hue?...doesnt seem to make any differance though.
case is a little differant too with a narrower leather hinge.

regards mark

[ksbird/foxranch]

Mark, I have noticed that when a tiny bit of finger or face oil gets on some coatings they change color and if this oil is smeared around evenly it will change the color completely. This doesn't impair the view significantly, but on my green coated optics, they often change to a purple color reflection etc. Of course the color problem you are having might also be the notoriously poor QC in Russian factories.

I purchased a pair of CZJ Binoctar 7x50s and 2 pairs of 10x50 Dekarems in Poland in 1992 and 1995. The color of the multicoatings on the objective lenses varied slightly in each case, even new out of the box, if I allowed light to pass through the eye lenses. But when I blocked the eye lenses, the color variations were reduced. I think that one of the internal lens surfaces on each side of each bin had a heavier multicoating of some color film and this made the final view seem slightly more purple, or yellow-gold or red. The binoculars work great to this day.

I purchased these 3 pairs of bins after looking at about a dozen pairs of each one. I was most concerned with the final view through the eye lenses and the maximum sharpness possible. This meant that I was primarily testing the alignment of each lens in the light path and whether each lens set was ground and polished correctly and then glued together correctly. The way the multicoatings looked for inspection purposes was a lesser consideration.

So if the view is sharp and contrasty, the flares are minimized and the collimation is good, then I will probably like the bin, assuming the FOV is wide enough. I hope the Russian bins you got do well for you. The prices are quite astounding when you compare them to others from Japan or even China, new or not.

[mark22c]

they are differant even after cleaning with solvent but this doesnt seem to affect the view they are infact slightly sharper than the first pair.
i am bidding on a pair of russian bnu5 12x45"M"'s(what does M signify?) dated 95 in new condition but not sure how far to go with bidding inlight of QC problems with my second pair of bnu5's dated 95. the early ones do seem to better made. but then all the problems were not to hard to fix

regards mark

[stuart C smith]

Originally Posted by mark22c

they are differant even after cleaning with solvent but this doesnt seem to affect the view they are infact slightly sharper than the first pair.
i am bidding on a pair of russian bnu5 12x45"M"'s(what does M signify?) dated 95 in new condition but not sure how far to go with bidding inlight of QC problems with my second pair of bnu5's dated 95. the early ones do seem to better made. but then all the problems were not to hard to fix

regards mark

hi mark, i think the [m] is for military but they are not, and if you google [ todds binocular evaluation] there is a short review on the 12x45s. regards stuart.

[mark22c]

thanks stuart. i found one place selling the 12x45's for $59 new and the 8x30's for $89...so probably wont be bidding any higher on the 12x45's... still loving these 8x30's.

cheers mark