[buff]

Has anyone tried these two in 10x, what are they like? As good as 8x format?

[buff]

74 views nobody tried 10x promaster or frontier.

[Kevin Purcell]

Originally Posted by buff

74 views nobody tried 10x promaster or frontier.

Apparently ... the only ones who have posted here have 8x.

[DHB]

Any new NEWS??? I am VERY tempted to try the 10X but the 330ft FOV has me less enthusiastic.

The 8x's are Superb.

[Tero]

How much fov do you expect in a 10x42? Check the competition.

[DHB]

IIRC - Leica/Swaro = 360ft

But more important is the apparent FOV which on the alpha's always "looks" wider than any Japaneze model. To me anyway......

[DHB]

I'll take my beating now please. I was wrong. The alpha's are 330 and the others are 315.
I know in 8x the difference in the FOV on the Leica/Swaro seems more than what is advertised in feet.

[Kevin Purcell]

6ish degrees is typical for a 10x. 6.5 degrees would be considered wide.

330 feet is 6.3 degrees. The same as my 8x30 Zeiss Conquest.

Obviously someone is going to have to order a 10x try them and return them if they don't like them (Hawke let you do that and CameraLandNY too for the Promaster).

After all that's how FrankD found that they were decent bins

[DHB]

I'm close but honestly hate to order something on those pretenses. I like to know I'm 90% sure I will keep them.

Dave

[Kevin Purcell]

Not a pretense ... it's a sales tactic. It removes some of the risk in buying the product so makes you more likely to buy it. And customers like it too. The product is returned as new with all bits so there's no loss of product either. Just the cost of shipping.

I think Tero, FrankD and myself (and perhaps quite a few others) avail ourselves of it from time to time.

Recently I've not been too successful though ... in the last two months I've had 6 purchases and only one keeper (a Pentax DCF HS 8x36) though one more of those returns will bring another bin that will be a keeper: the rather unique Pentax Papillio.

I think my lifetime average of keepers buying from stores is about 50%. I've been more successful picking and buying pre-owned bins

Check the small print if you go this route. Eagle Optics makes it very easy (they don't even charge you for their shipping). CameraLandNY are a bit more pragmatic (they do!).

[Tero]

Wait till that closet shelf is full. Then your return rate will go to 80%. But I try to bring some business their way. I returned a binocular, exchanged it for a tripod base.

[Kevin Purcell]

Originally Posted by Tero

Wait till that closet shelf is full. Then your return rate will go to 80%. But I try to bring some business their way. I returned a binocular, exchanged it for a tripod base.

I don't think Eagle Optics lost money on me this year

[BinoBoy]

I was out Christmas shopping tonight and discovered that Mike's Camera store here in the Denver, Colorado area carries the Promaster Infinity Elite ELX's. At good prices, too! The 8x42 are $400 and the 10x42 are $450. I only had a few seconds to try them out. They seemed very sharp, as every else has said, but I wasn't that impressed with the focusing. Eye relief was fine with my glasses with the cups down, a pleasant surprise since the 10x42 supposedly have only 15.2 mm. I preferred the 10x42. The apparent field of view (the image circle) was larger and I had no problem holding them steady. Overall the ergonomics and build quality were great except for the slow focus. I wish I could give you a more detailed review of the 10x42, but the saleslady was hovering over me and they were very busy due to the holiday.

Mike's is a fairly small local chain, but they do have a website (www.mikescamera.com).

Here are some links to save you searching:

http://www.mikescamera.com/products....:Section:Specs

http://www.mikescamera.com/products....:Section:Specs


I've got no business buying new bins right now, but I'm sorely tempted at these prices! Mike's is a reputable company, but I've never ordered from their website since I can just go to the store. It looks like they ship internationally.

Hope this helps!

[DHB]

I have some 10x's coming. We'll see............

[Kevin Purcell]

Looking forward to your write up, DHB.

[DHB]

Guaranteed it won't be as good to read as yours, Steve's or Frank's but will give my honest opinion....

Dave

[Kevin Purcell]

Originally Posted by DHB

I have some 10x's coming. We'll see............

Did they arrive?

Did you try them out?

[DHB]

Weather, work and Christmas has put a dampner on testing but did get a few minutes to test drive the 10x42 Promaster vs my Leica 10x42 BA. This particular Leica "I" believe is a very good sample but can't confirm as I don't take the time or have the knowledge to do a star test, etc.
To the point-

The 10x PM seem to be a little further behind the Alpha compared to the 8X. The 8X PM seem to be every bit as good as any 8X bino I have owned which I only have lately become more a fan of fullsize 8X. For a long time I was a 10x42 or 8x32 advocate but I have owned plenty of late and still have a 8.5x42 EL.

The 10X has a nice wide FOV and is sharp and bright. Maybe just a tick behind the Leica in resolution. What I find is that I fiddle with the PM to get an object in perfect focus where the Leica it just snaps right there. Once focused they are very close.
Edge sharpness was good in the PM.

One other item - In 5-10 degree weather the PM focus is very tight compared to the Leica. IIRC Leica does not use grease in the focus mechanism for this very reason. It felt about the same in the cold as it does in summer. Nice although not butter smooth.


Not scientific like some but.....

Dave

[Tero]

Well, it was pretty much what I expected to hear. I do not expect them to beat the Pentax ED 10x at twice the price, but may be very close, closer than to the Leica.

[DHB]

I have never had a set of ED's in hand but my experience with multiple set's of SP's that the ED's better be WAY better to best the Promasters. To me these are easily better than any SP's I have owned. The ONE and only thing I like about the SP's is what seems to me is very good color saturation. Just seems the greens and reds just stand out.

Dave

[Tero]

There may be some quality issues with the Pentax 10x, I have seen two store units, and one was better than the other. I sort of prefer the Pentax to Viper at 10x, at 8x I do not see much difference.

[Kevin Purcell]

Originally Posted by Tero

Well, it was pretty much what I expected to hear. I do not expect them to beat the Pentax ED 10x at twice the price, but may be very close, closer than to the Leica.

You should try a set of Promasters, Tero.

My experience is that they will beat the Pentax EDs unless the Pentax EDs are really, really good. And given where they seem to rank I suspect they may be below the EDs. Though I'd love to see a head to head evaluation of these (armchair speculation is easy!).

Thanks for the write up, DHB, despite the weather and the time of year (I though that might have something to do with it!). If you get a chance for a closer apprasal (especially when activley birding) I'd be interested to hear it.

I can also see your point about the focus: the PMs do seem to need the right focus but when the 8x PMs are on focus they are very sharp. I can imagine the 10x depth of field/depth of focus is smaller so they need to be even more on the dot. I wonder if this drove the choice of gear ratio for the focus control? Faster focus would be nicer for general use but would it end up being so fiddly as to be annoying (especially with an imprefections like backlash ... I don't detect any but I could imagine that being a limiting factor). Just another of the many bin design choices.

[Steve C]

Originally Posted by Kevin Purcell

You should try a set of Promasters, Tero.

I can also see your point about the focus: the PMs do seem to need the right focus but when the 8x PMs are on focus they are very sharp. I can imagine the 10x depth of field/depth of focus is smaller so they need to be even more on the dot. I wonder if this drove the choice of gear ratio for the focus control? Faster focus would be nicer for general use but would it end up being so fiddly as to be annoying (especially with an imprefections like backlash ... I don't detect any but I could imagine that being a limiting factor). Just another of the many bin design choices.

Tero
Kevin is right, you need to try a set of Promasters. Seems like you have hundreds of posts going through binoculars looking for the ultimate low cost, good binocular. When it shows up in plain sight in the form of the Promaster, you give it the cold shoulder. Not complaining or flaming, but an observation. Lord knows I went through more than my fair share of "optical stuff", so that's common to lots of us. I'd be interested in your opinion of them. It seems to me to be the ideal one choice binocular for the serious user with some budget constraints.

While the Promaster does require some fiddling (for lack of a better term) to get the diopter adjustment right the first time, I have yet to have to fiddle at all with mine outside the initial set up. It does not have the annoying "diopter drift" sometimes seen on "almost there" value price binoculars.

[Tero]

Well, I was taken off track by the Viper opportunity. So now I have my usual dilemma, if I get the 8x ProMaster, I have to get rid of the Viper, they will be useless. They actually are very similar to SP level Pentax.

But the 10x ProMater is in the plans all along. Somebody buy my scope please! Need funds.

More at binocular ramblings thread.

[FrankD]

Hmm, interesting but not surprising. I found much the same thing with the 10x and 8x Vortex Razors. I loved the 8x version but was less than thrilled with the 10x. I wonder if this is a question of needing tighter manufacturing tolerances for the higher magnification or just that the 8x42 versions of these binoculars are more "optimized and tweeked" for overall performance.