[Acrocephalus]

Hi everyone,

I have been ringing in Smir marshes (north-west of Morocco) during the last three years, and I have trapped some Bluethroats there (about 100 new birds). Because we tried to identify the birds to subspecies level when possible, we assigned about third of the birds to cyanecula subspecies (small white-spotted morph). We identified 3 birds as svecica subspecies (red-spotted morph), the rest were not identified to subspecies level. Surprisingly we haven’t ringed any bird that belongs to the namnetum subspecies (large white-spotted morph) that breeds in northwestern France.

We have ringed also some birds that lack the central spot in throat (see photograph 3), they probably belongs to Iberian birds that some authors treat them as cyanecula and other describe them as azuricollis, but I am not sure if they are actually Iberian birds or not?

Now, I would like to ask you some questions about this subject:
1-First, could you please confirm the ID (subspecies) of the birds in the photographs attached?

2-If someone has ringed the Iberian breeding birds, could tell if it is possible to separate those birds from central European cyanecula on biometrics data only?

3-How many often you catch the red-spotted morph (svecica) especially in the Iberian Peninsula?

4-How many often you catch the namnetum subspecies, because I wonder if I misidentified them with the similar cyanecula (both have white central spot on throat but they differ in size of that spot and in body size as well)

5-The 3 birds identified as svecica actually have some white admixed with red-orrange on the central spot (see photograph 2); I don’t know if this is normal or I misidentified them.

Thanks very much

[JANJ]

Hello Mohamed.

Just thought I should open this again - but not my specific area and forgive me for asking a dumb question - have you consulted Svensson (Identification Guide to European Passerines)?

http://www.ibercajalav.net/img/330_B...atLsvecica.pdf

JanJ

[Acrocephalus]

Hi,

Don’t worry, we are here to learn and “take and give”, your question is not dumb; yes I consulted Svenson and Collins Bird Gueid, and i just want to confirm by asking someone who has ringed them

[John Morgan]

Originally Posted by Acrocephalus

We have ringed also some birds that lack the central spot in throat (see photograph 3), they probably belongs to Iberian birds that some authors treat them as cyanecula and other describe them as azuricollis, but I am not sure if they are actually Iberian birds or not?

It is remotely conceivable that these are ssp. magna. Check the biometrics on adult males, which should average longer wings than svecica, cyanecula or pallidogularis

Even though magna seems very, very unlikely, there exists Isabelline Wheatear, breeding in the same part of the world and overlapping the breeding range of magna, which has wintering grounds that include the Atlantic coast of Mauretania. Do you ever see migrant Oenanthe isabellina in late February onwards in the part of Morocco where you are?