[kristoffer]

Hi guys. I posted this thread about 6 months ago but I never bought a pair of smallish bins. I need a pair that fits in my jacket and that works when i dont have my vipers with me. Last time my research led me to the nikon sportstar since they are cheap, small (very important) and acceptable image quality.

I haven't been able to check birdforum for many months so I just wonder if I have missed some new small bins on the market or if the Nikon still stands as best cheap, small, pocket choice?

[FrankD]

I liked one of the previous incarnations of the Sportstar ( I believe it was the 4th) which they now turned into another model with the same exact specs.

As for other 20-25 mm compacts, I can only offer that there has been some discussion about one of the Vortex models as well as one of the Promasters. If I remember correctly at least one of them was offering phase coating which should, theoretically, offer a step up in terms of optical performance from the Sportstars.

[Kevin Conville]

I just ordered a pair of Pentax 8x25 DCF SW. $121. from Amazon and they look pretty good except the FOV isn't anything to brag about.

I have no great expectations so I'll probably like them well enough. I just wanted a (true) pocket bin for walking my dog. I'll give a report after I've had them a few days.

[Kevin Purcell]

Originally Posted by Kevin Conville

I just ordered a pair of Pentax 8x25 DCF SW. $121. from Amazon and they look pretty good except the FOV isn't anything to brag about.

I have no great expectations so I'll probably like them well enough. I just wanted a (true) pocket bin for walking my dog. I'll give a report after I've had them a few days.

I do have a pair. The view is quite good (about that of the Pentax HS with that slightly more reddish Pentax color tint) though the FOV is narrow. They are spot a bird: find the bird. But they're handy when you haven't anything else but these are on the belt. Not too sure if my pair have decent collimation at the moment (double hinged problem perhaps?).

They're perhaps the best of the not alpha double hinge bins.

But I prefer my Zeiss Victory 8x20. Despite the smaller ER and pupil they are a lot more comfortable to use (and easier to set up with their offset single hinge). Go figure But not cheap.

[Kevin Conville]

Originally Posted by Kevin Purcell

I do have a pair. The view is quite good (about that of the Pentax HS with that slightly more reddish Pentax color tint) though the FOV is narrow. They are spot a bird: find the bird. But they're handy when you haven't anything else but these are on the belt. Not too sure if my pair have decent collimation at the moment (double hinged problem perhaps?).

They're perhaps the best of the not alpha double hinge bins.

It's that compromise of design rearing it's head again. Twin hinge roof minis are my least favorite bins to use, but as the adage goes... the best bins in the world are the ones you have with you.

These SWs do pack a lot of (features) punch for the money though and promise to be OK, allowing that there are no collimation issues. Twin hinge bins, I can speculate, would seem to demand a high degree of mechanical precision. I look forward to trying them out.

[Kevin Purcell]

Yeap, Kevin Mc, I agree.

For some reason the SW are more fiddley than I like especially with my more myopic right eye.

I also find the ER is a bit too much for my glasses (blackouts with the eyecups fully down). There are claims of 4 position eyecups but AFAICT this has two reall positions (locked up and locked down) and not locked down and up. The not locked down position is best for me (taking up a couple mm of ER). But I think I need O-rings to set the preferred height.

They do have stops on the hinge though so you can approximate a single hinge by opening one side fully out and setting the IPD with the other.

And as I'm complaing ... the case is upright belt mount and rather too tight a grip on the bins. Just a bit looser would be nice. They're not great for the quick draw (which is sort of why I have them). Though they do seem to have loosend a bit so perhaps they'll just wear in.

Oh, and the focuser seems stiffer than I'd like.

But yes it's the bin you have with you that counts. And the view is not bad.

[Perry Grin]

Originally Posted by kristoffer

Hi guys. I posted this thread about 6 months ago but I never bought a pair of smallish bins. I need a pair that fits in my jacket and that works when i dont have my vipers with me. Last time my research led me to the nikon sportstar since they are cheap, small (very important) and acceptable image quality.

I haven't been able to check birdforum for many months so I just wonder if I have missed some new small bins on the market or if the Nikon still stands as best cheap, small, pocket choice?

I can recommend the Opticron Taiga 8x25, nice pair of bins for around £70-80. The first pair that I tried was a poor sample though so it might be wise to try them before you buy. However, I have heard a number of people recommend them and no one has stated that they experienced the same problem so I don't think that there is a quality control issue.

Perry

[kristoffer]

Originally Posted by Perry Grin

I can recommend the Opticron Taiga 8x25, nice pair of bins for around £70-80. The first pair that I tried was a poor sample though so it might be wise to try them before you buy. However, I have heard a number of people recommend them and no one has stated that they experienced the same problem so I don't think that there is a quality control issue.

Perry

thanks for input guys. I think porros are a bit big though so roofs are what I look for. :)

[Tero]

Go for the Pentax or Nikon. At least you will have something in your pocket. If something appears.

[kristoffer]

Originally Posted by Tero

Go for the Pentax or Nikon. At least you will have something in your pocket. If something appears.

yeah I will :) last week Turdus ruficollis appeared but I had luckily had my vipers with me then!

[falcondude]

Originally Posted by kristoffer

thanks for input guys. I think porros are a bit big though so roofs are what I look for. :)

Have you checked some of the reverse porro ones.

[kristoffer]

Originally Posted by falcondude

Have you checked some of the reverse porro ones.

if you mean taiga yeah,think it´s a bit too big. got any other tip?

[Swedpat]

Hi,

I have earlier owned a Konica Minolta Activa 8x25 D WP XL. The new Pentax 8x25 DCF SW seems to be nearly a copy if it. The same narrow FOV but with great eye relief.
I had a Leica 8x20 a while but sold it because it was not really comfortable with eyeglasses. In this respect the Minolta 8x25 was superior.
I miss a compact binocular and consider to get a Pentax 8x25 DCF SW, I would be satisfied if it holds at least the same quality at the now discontinued Konica Minolta.

Regards, Patric

[merlin4me]

Originally Posted by kristoffer

Hi guys. I posted this thread about 6 months ago but I never bought a pair of smallish bins. I need a pair that fits in my jacket and that works when i dont have my vipers with me. Last time my research led me to the nikon sportstar since they are cheap, small (very important) and acceptable image quality.

I haven't been able to check birdforum for many months so I just wonder if I have missed some new small bins on the market or if the Nikon still stands as best cheap, small, pocket choice?

Nikon do the best compacts going 8x20.

[Perry Grin]

Originally Posted by kristoffer

if you mean taiga yeah,think it´s a bit too big. got any other tip?

Hi Kristoffer, Have you had a look at the reverse porros? They are bigger than roofs but they are still compact. My Taigas happily fit into my jacket pocket....

[kristoffer]

Originally Posted by Perry Grin

Hi Kristoffer, Have you had a look at the reverse porros? They are bigger than roofs but they are still compact. My Taigas happily fit into my jacket pocket....

I have not tried one IRL, I just read that some people find the taigas slightly too large to fit in a pocket, and the small roofs fit easy in a pocket. But since i havnt tried em I dont really know :)

[kristoffer]

Originally Posted by Swedpat

Hi,

I have earlier owned a Konica Minolta Activa 8x25 D WP XL. The new Pentax 8x25 DCF SW seems to be nearly a copy if it. The same narrow FOV but with great eye relief.
I had a Leica 8x20 a while but sold it because it was not really comfortable with eyeglasses. In this respect the Minolta 8x25 was superior.
I miss a compact binocular and consider to get a Pentax 8x25 DCF SW, I would be satisfied if it holds at least the same quality at the now discontinued Konica Minolta.

Regards, Patric

thanks pat, the pentax is quite expensive in Sweden but maybe i can order it overseas. Or the nikon, or the taiga.

[mikfoz]

Originally Posted by Perry Grin

Hi Kristoffer, Have you had a look at the reverse porros? They are bigger than roofs but they are still compact. My Taigas happily fit into my jacket pocket....

I totally agree. The Taigas are excellent compacts.

[Kevin Conville]

Originally Posted by Kevin Conville

I just ordered a pair of Pentax 8x25 DCF SW. $121. from Amazon and they look pretty good except the FOV isn't anything to brag about.

I have no great expectations so I'll probably like them well enough. I just wanted a (true) pocket bin for walking my dog. I'll give a report after I've had them a few days.

First, I apologize for quoting myself but it helps with context.
I received the bins yesterday and they're going back tomorrow. The focus mechanism is defective. There is about 5-6mm of slack when shifting from close focusing to distant, and vice versa. As if this weren't bad enough, the actual focus action is rubbery and notchy. Only the miserable Vortex Furys (pre-corrected) I had for a nanosecond were worse, and that's unusable.

I'm getting a refund and not an exchange as I also don't care for them for other reasons. The location of the focus wheel, for me, is in an awkward location and I wind up using my ring finger to focus, which I don't like. To add to all this focus trouble the point of focus realization is small and difficult to sneak up on. The eye relief is a lot, too much for most I'm sure. I can compensate for this with my own way of holding bins but it forces me to use my ring finger for focus. These things are just not a good fit for me.

Optically I can't really speak to as frankly I didn't use them enough to give a reasonable evaluation.

I'm now thinking about the Nikon 8x25 Trailblazer.

[Swedpat]

Kevin,

I am really sorry for your bad experience. Also I am sorry for the still rotten quality control of chinese optics (I suppose they are?). Even more in this case actually, when it concerns such a large and reknowned brand as Pentax.

Regards, Patric

[Kevin Conville]

Originally Posted by Swedpat

Kevin,

I am really sorry for your bad experience. Also I am sorry for the still rotten quality control of chinese optics (I suppose they are?). Even more in this case actually, when it concerns such a large and reknowned brand as Pentax.

Regards, Patric

Yes Patric, they are Chinese. Subsequent to my above posts, I tried another pair of the SWs and their focus was terrible as well. Kevin Purcell has them and likes them however so I'm somewhat at a loss to understand what's going on. My inclination is to assume crappy quality control which wouldn't be anything new for a lot of the Chin bins, but these are Pentax and I expected more. I've had lots of Pentax products over many years and they've all been of good to great quality and a good value.

[John Dracon]

Kristoffer - From time to time on ebay the old bushnell 6x25 or 7x26 porro comes up for sale. These are usually in good condition and are very, very handy and have good optics. Just a suggestion. John

[FrankD]

My inclination is to assume crappy quality control which wouldn't be anything new for a lot of the Chin bins, but these are Pentax and I expected more. I've had lots of Pentax products over many years and they've all been of good to great quality and a good value.

..and that, in a nutshell is my biggest pet peeve. There are some absolutely excellent, relatively inexpensive binoculars out there right now. But with quality control being as it is at the various price points it is often hit or miss in terms of what you get. Sometimes is it almost smarter to order two or three pairs of the same model and then return the one(s) you don't like.

[Tero]

I have looked at the Pentax 8x25s on and off. I also looked at the 10x25 and dismissed them as useless. They have come in 28mm from time to time.

I would say they are better than the 50 dollar 8x25s by Bushnell found at Wal Mart, but I never got excited enough about them to try them out. At one point they were my front runner.

I did have the Pentax 8x25 reverse porros for a week or so. No real recollection why I took them back. But they were better than the little 8x25 roofs.

[Steve C]

I had the chance recently to look at the Pentax DCF LV 9x28. It seems a whale of a lot better than the double hinge SW. It is bigger than the SW, but still more compact and more easily pocketable than my 7x26 B&L Custom. It actually did fit into the pocket of the shirt I was wearing. The image was bright and sharp. Much easier to hold, manipulate and use than the double hingers. Not as small as what you're after but still a real good small binocular.