[potts34137a]

Hello all, there is a similar thread on another well known astronomy website, but being as I have an interest in nature as well as stargazing and binoculars I thought I would start a thread dedicated purely to vintage(pre1980) binoculars.
There should be no brand snobbery just discussion on and around using vintage binoculars for whatever you use them, previous reviews or knowledge is most useful, uploading pictures would also be useful if the facility exists, I am sure someone will point me in the right direction?
a Link to my Flikr page
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9658763@N07/

and also to another excellent Flikr users site of binoculars.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/binoculars/

[elkcub]

Welcome to Birdforum. I think a vintage thread would be quite interesting.

You might wish to look at my thread: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=42944, which has lots of info about vintage Audubons and related Swift binoculars.

It may be difficult to de-snob many branditos.

Uploading pictures is accomplished by pushing the "Go Advanced" button, and then the "Manage Attachments" button. There are limits on picture sizes.

Regards,
Ed

[Steve C]

In addition to the thread Ed mentions, there have been two recent threads on the same subject:

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=137738

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=139957

There are likely others as well.

This might be something for the moderators to consider adding as a seperate sub forum.

[potts34137a]

Ok we may have a photo here, it should be a Zomz 7x 50IF binocular I guess it was made 1960's hopefully someone will tell me how their numbering system works.
The binoculars give an extremely sharp image with very good resolution, image is as often the case with Russian binoculars tinged yellow.
Russian binoculars can often be had fairly cheaply, optically they are usually a good bet, mechanically they vary from very good to agricultural but always functional it seems.

[ChadHahn]

I went to visit my mom and she had a pair of K-Mart Focal Binoculars from probably the 60s. They were made in Japan and 7x35. I didn't see a JL number on the passed sticker so I couldn't determine what factory made them.

I was very surprised when I looked through them. I guess K-Mart and Kresge's were higher market than K-Mart is today.

Chad

[elkcub]

Originally Posted by Steve C

...
This might be something for the moderators to consider adding as a separate sub forum.

I agree. A separate sub-forum on vintage binoculars.

Ed

[potts34137a]

There are quite a few resources already out there it's just finding them here are a few;
http://home.europa.com/~telscope/binotele.htm
useful binocular/telescope history site.

http://www.oldbinoculars.com/index.html
quaint site about old binoculars with a nice little video.

http://www.holgermerlitz.de/index.html
great site with a good page on spotting faked Jenoptems

these are just a few and have been for me interesting and pop up free.
here's another pic this time a Carl Zeiss Telact from around 1910.

[potts34137a]

ok here is pic ...hopefully of a c1910 Carl Zeiss IF 8 X 24mm

[sammyboy]

I'd like to see a vintage binoculars section, I have a few myself.

No pics yet as I'm at work, but I've got a pair of circa. 1930 Carl Zeiss Turactem 8x24 bins, which are still very sharp and useable even today, though a bit dim. Also a very nice little 8x21 Turmon monocular, not sure of the date but has lens coatings so probably '60s.

Also I have a pair of Voightlander 6x24s too, need a good internal clean but I can see that they would be good quality once cleaned! Not sure how to go about it though, don't want to try myself as I'll probably make them worse lol!

Then there's my favourite pair, not sure if they're classed as 'vintage' as they were made in 1970 but there's my 8x30 Zeiss West Dialyts, the long version - no rubber armour, no P* or T* coatings but excellent image quality, not far off my new Pentax 8x36 DCF HS bins which are phase coated!

[chris lewis]

The Carl Zeiss's that came out after 1978 with the Multi coated lens still give exceptional images. The only negative being the limited eye relief.
I have a 10x50W Jenoptem for astro use and an excellent Jenoptem 8x30W for birding. The 8x30W has a 8.6 degree FOV. There is obvious curvature of field at the periphery but the image is very usable. Contrast and color fidelity is excellent. ER is 12mm.

Chris

[sammyboy]

Oh yes, I'd forgotten I also have a pair of near-mint Zeiss Jenoptem 10x50s that date from 1979. I picked these up in a charity shop for £15, and what's more they not only came in their case but original box too! Will get some pics up later. One blot on it's copybook though is that there is a bit of mould/fungus on the internal optics that'll need a professional clean, but the view through them is still excellent - only some specks visible round the edge of the view.

btw there's a few pictures of my 8x30b Dialyts in this thread if anyone's interested :)

[sammyboy]

A few pictures of the Jenoptems, there's also the original leather case too which isn't in the photos.

Apologies for the slightly dodgy quality, the pics were taken using my P1i mobile phone!

[potts34137a]

Sammy Boy, if your the sort of person who can build Airfix kits well, if you set up deraillieurs on a bicycle and if your fairly neat then taking apart, cleaning and collimating old binoculars isn't that difficult.
All you need is a decent set of jewellers screwdrivers, a strap wrench, some cleaning materials -I use Lidl sunglasses wipes and have not damaged any coatings in 45 pairs of binoculars I have cleaned! oh and a bit of patience.
Practice on an old cheap £5 pair from a car boot9be careful you don't start buying even more...like I have it does become addictive! you have been warned.

[potts34137a]

Sammy Boy as regards 'Vintage' I would say pre 1980 but to be honest if the main body, prism end plates is made of metal(aluminium /brass) and 'plastic' (vulcanite/bakelite)parts are limited to say eyecups and or focus wheel then its ok, but hey thats just my idea of vintage!

[sammyboy]

I do take mobile phones and sometimes digital cameras apart to fix them, just a bit worried about the collimation issue when cleaning binoculars internally.

I don't know whether to try cleaning the Voigtlander bins, though one of the objective lenses I can't unscrew (seems jammed into place), might keep an eye on Ebay for any cheapies that need an internal clean.

btw silly question - what's a strap wrench? Got some jeweller's screwdrivers (essential for taking mobiles/cameras apart) and some cleaning materials though!

[potts34137a]

look for baby boa on Ebay or you may get one at Halfords, they sell for around a fiver, I used to use a Spontex cloth to grip things tight but to be honest a Baby Boa is better...check there are no tiny screws hidden holding into the thread as trying to undo it with a screw in place will wreck the threads!
Collimation is not too bad to sort out, if the objective lenses are adjusted via eccentric rings then just mark the current position and make sure they go back the same...don't mix the sides up, if the adjustment is via small set screws on the prisms again mark with a pencil so you know exactly where they fit, you only usually have to back off one screw to remove the prism again don't mix them up! when you re-instal just tighten the screw until it just touches the prism...make sure the holding strip isn't too tight else you will not be able to adjust if needed the collimation when its all back together.

Hope this is fairly clear..if you really struggle email me on cpotz@aol.com or PM me, expect around £50 at a specialist to clean & recollimate.

[Robert Wallace]

I also support the idea of a vintage optics section.
My first decent binoculars were a pair of East German Zeiss 10x50 Dekarems purchased new in 1974. I also purchased a Nickel Supra telescope in 1975, which I still use occaisionaly. The Nickel Supra is very easy to carry in its leather case and I hardly notice the weight, whereas using my Nikon 60mm Fieldscope plus essential monopod (if not tripod) seems much harder work.
I still use my Zeiss Dialyts 10x40 and 7x42 but my modern pair of bins is the Nikon HG 8x32. I can remember when very few birders used the so called "alpha" brands and Zeiss Jena and Swift were easily the most popular brands.
Two years ago I bought from ebay some Carl Zeiss 8x30b with the leather neck strap attached at the bridge and these are excellent for my BTO Garden Birdwatching activities. I also bought a pair of Barr and Stroud 8x30 wide angle for purely nostalgic reasons. I had to have them serviced but they now work fine, poor close focussing not as bright as the Zeiss but a nice field of view. I suspect that with my bird watching skills (or lack of) I could manage quite adequately with my vintage optics. Who needs to wait for the latest Nikon EDGs?

[Kevin Purcell]

Originally Posted by sammyboy

btw silly question - what's a strap wrench? Got some jeweller's screwdrivers (essential for taking mobiles/cameras apart) and some cleaning materials though!

From wikipedia

Strap wrench or chain wrench: a self-tightening wrench with either a chain or strap of metal, leather, or rubber attached to a handle, used to grip and turn smooth cylindrical objects (such as automotive oil filters). In bicycle repair circles it is known as a chain whip and is used primarily to remove and install cassettes on rear hubs

You might have seen it used in plumbing or removing oil filters.

Or in an arthritic person's kitchen (to open jar lids).

[potts34137a]

the Baby Boa uses a non damaging rubber strap, it doesn't mark the objectives I can thoroughly recommend them.

[potts34137a]

Her's a few more pictures of older binoculars... 1st is a 1960's?German? Leibermann & Gortz 10 x 40 an alround excellent glass despite some snobbery amongst collectors, it is if anything a little dim, 2nd is a really good 1944 Canadian Research Enterprise Limited (REL) M3 6 x 30 these are altogether excellent glass they would be fantastic with modern coatings and last but by no means least a really nice C.P Goerz of Berlin 41/2 x Neo Universal from the 1930's?, these are really good and I mean really good...easily the equal of Zeiss.

[potts34137a]

Another pair of binoculars that I have, a pair of Ross Power 6 magnification IF's with 24mm objective lenses, these are I believe a licence built Zeiss copy(please feel free to let me know otherwise as historical accuracy is paramount) they are extremely good giving a very clear,sharp image with a very good 3D image.
Makers information etc on prism plates appears to be inlaid in silver wire and leather covering is brown not the usual black.
They are so good I am looking forn 8x CF version!

[sammyboy]

By an amazing stroke of luck I came across a new and still packaged Baby Boa in a charity shop, got it for £3.50!

I plucked up the courage to have a go at cleaning my old Voigtlander bins. Took them apart (got off a stiff objective lens with the Boa!) to give the prisms a good clean, though couldn't get the eyepiece end prisms out fully as couldn't get the shoulder plates off as couldn't work out how those individual focus eyepieces came out. Noticed sadly one of the prisms is chipped but out of the FOV so doesn't affect the view. I cleaned the prisms and lenses I could get to with some cleaning fluid (meant for 'high tech' appliances lol!) which worked a treat! The view is now much better, although there's still a bit of cloudiness and some dirt particles, probably in the eyepiece optics which I can't get to or the parts of those prisms I cannot fully remove. However it's brought the Voigtlander's potential out, and the view is very sharp and not too dull for a pair of probably pre-WW2 binoculars!

btw how do I remove the IF eyepieces? Do they screw off, or are there screws somewhere? If there are I can't find any, there's a couple of tiny holes in each eyepiece with the eyecups unscrewed but seem too small for screws, and can't see any screw in there anyway.

@potts34137a - how good are those L & B bins? I see quite a few of them on Ebay and wonder about giving them a try but always thought they were cheap Japanese optics - am I wrong on that front? If so I might invest in a pair!

[potts34137a]

Hi SB,
I guess you miss typed L&B ? for Leibermann and Gortz? if so well it depends...it seems originally they were possibly a genuine German concern based in Berlin that may or may not have made binoculars for other companies to badge themselves.
It appears that around the last war(WW2) they moved to England possibly London and collaborated with British makers, noticeably Wray and Dolland and possibly Newbold & Bulford.
This last part is my own theory as I have several pairs of Wray,Dolland and L&G and at a certain point/ time they are all pretty much identical in performance and build as well as serial numbering see here for further information on a different forum(my theory only)

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthrea.../fpart/29/vc/1

The above thread is worth reading all the way back from page 1 and is also worth joining the group purely for it, contributiona are frequent helpfull and friendly.
As for optical performance on L&G's well some are average, some are good, some excellent and some quite poor! I have a decent pair of 10x 40's that are very respectable but I also have a very clean almost mint pair of Newbold & Bulford(enbeeco) 10 or 12 x 40's that are very dim and dull!

[Pinewood]

Hello Potts,

I do not do photographs but I would like to mention two old but still useful binoculars for bird watching:

B&L 7x35 Zephyrs with centre focussing and
Leitz 8x30 Binuxit

Both should be sought in the coated versions but both have shallow eye relief and fixed eye cups, making them problematic for wearers of specs.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood

[John H.-S.]

Leitz Binuxit is a lovely binocular but it won't focus closer than 25 - 30 feet, not close enough; sometimes I watch birds in the garden from inside the house and they come to within 12 feet of me. I would sooner have a Carl Zeiss Jena Deltrintem which is as good as a Binuxit, and better in that it focuses down to about 8 feet.