[mcepjg]

What are peoples thoughts on these binoculars.

Leupold Yosemite 6 x 30, ~£93
Nikon Sporter EX 8 x 42, ~ £132
Nikon Sporter 8 x 36 ~ £ 60
Opticron Imagic TGA 8 x 42 ~ £130

which would you buy for these prices?

Optically which is best? is there anything else worth considering for under £150?

I know the yosemites get rave reviews in the states especially seeing as they are cheaper over there. But is it worth it in the UK? I thought it might be a good option for my mother (I'm sure roofs are fine but I'm not sure how heavy she would find with 8 x 42 porro's)

I don't know a lot about the sporter EX is it optically as good as the sporter?

What are your thoughts

[Steve C]

I've no experience with any Opticron, but I own a Yosemite 6x30 and would get it over the Sporter.

[mcepjg]

thanks would you go for the 6 x 30 over the 8 x 30?

[Steve C]

I have both. I think the image is a bit better and brighter with the 6x, but the 8x is pretty good. There is a noticeable difference in the size of the image. But the 6x is darned good. It depends on your personal preference of magnification. Maybe order both and send the one you don't want back? If that is an option at the source of supply.

[FrankD]

My comments tend to mirror Steve's. I enjoyed using both the Sporter I and both of the Yosemites. The 6x30 is a bit of a "no-brainer" though as it offers excellent optical performance in an lightweight, easy to use package. I think your mother would thoroughly enjoy them.

[Steve C]

Hmmm. Seems I get the good observation award. I missed the part about your mother. That tends to make me think that she might well be better suited to less magnification of the 6x, since image shake will be considerably reduced. That of course depends on how old she may be and if she is at all frail, which I have no way of knowing.

[pete_gamby]

To add confusion to the mix, you might want to consider the Opticron 8x32 Discovery WP. This finds favour with female owners as its very lightweight and compact (about 40% lighter than the Imagic and the Sporter EX in your list). Size wise, they're great for smaller hands.

Price wise, there are deals around for £109 on these (compared to a list price of £149) :-)

[Swedpat]

I have as well the Yosemite 6x30 and Sporter 8x36. About the two other I can't comment. But between Yosemite and Sporter I can tell:

Sharpness and contrast: Yosemite
Eye relief and AFOV: Sporter

In my opinion I think that as well Yosemite and Sporter are well worth these prices.

But: concerning (on-axis)sharpness I am very sure Yosemite is the sharpest of them all. It beats every mid-priced roof glass I have tried in this respect.

Regards, Patric

[mcepjg]

I think I will go for the 6 x 30 yosemites. The posts have been really useful.

It was really handy that you guys shared your experiences of the sporters, the 8 x 30, and the 6 x 30. I actually already own a 8 x 42 (not 32) discovery wp and I really like that but I thought an 8 x 32 might be a bit dull.

I'm always a little aprehensive about buying roof prisms with objective lenses smaller than 42 thats why I wasn't sure about the sporters (although I know there have been some good reviews on them).

I think it was a great idea of Leupold to make a 30mm with a magnification of 6 x, as no doubt the small magnification compensates for the small objectives and so increases brightness and fov, whilst the lighter weight allows a steady picture.

I'm really looking forward to seeing what these are like and who knows I might get some for myself (seeing as my gf always pinches my discoveries).

Thanks again guys and I'll let you know how I get on.

[Kevin Purcell]

As it not been mentioned here you might look at the Vortex Raptor (when they finally ship). They seem to be the Vortex answer to the Yosemite with a few tweaks.

So far no one has seen them ...

[FrankD]

Pete,

I think you will enjoy the 6x30 Yosemites. I just picked up my son's pair of Yosemites after quite a time of not using them. I was again impressed by the quality of the image in such a nice, compact package.

[mcepjg]

Hi everyone who helped me choose these. I love them, obviously I gave them a thorough checking today before I giftwrap them. I mean afterall I had to check they were not knocked out of collimation in transit right . They really are a nice package (especially considering how little you guys pay for them in the states).

Unfortunately, it was a bittersweet experience for me, as I had to pay an additional £18, plus transport costs to the parcelforce depot, and had the hassle of having to spend my weekend picking them up from the parcelforce depot.

This is because when you buy an item from the states (for over £18) it gets charged VAT (roughly £10) there is no way to pay this until it arrives. when it arrives customs prevent it from being transported and so parcelforce store it for you at the extremely reasonable price of £8 (please note the sarcasm in my tone). All this extra cost on top of the original postage and packaging which is obviously not that cheap but reasonable considering the distance it is travelling.

anyway cest la vie. I really like them and I am sure my mother will also. they are even lighter than I imagined and I may even go through the same rigmarole for another pair since they are so good. You guys in the states are so lucky.

anyway thanks again for your help. I'll let you know how my mum likes them.

[FrankD]

Pete,

Glad to see you are happy with them. There are several excellent binocular bargains out there right now and the Yosemite, as well as the newer EO and Vortex versions, are definitely in that group.

Plus, it was just worth it to read your post when I saw the word "rigmarole". I haven't "heard" it in years not to mention seen it on paper.

Thanks. :-)

[mooreorless]

That's funny I just read Pete's reply and thought the same thing Frank "rigmarole". I still have my Leupold 6x30 Yosemite and my Brother-in-Law won't get rid of his, in fact when I show him some new binocular I have he just says "well these are not any better than my Yosemite." He gets kind of annoying. Glad you liked this binocular.

[mcepjg]

Originally Posted by FrankD

Pete,

Glad to see you are happy with them. There are several excellent binocular bargains out there right now and the Yosemite, as well as the newer EO and Vortex versions, are definitely in that group.

Plus, it was just worth it to read your post when I saw the word "rigmarole". I haven't "heard" it in years not to mention seen it on paper.

Thanks. :-)

It's a word I learned from an old Hovis or Warburton's advert and I rather like it. "do we have to go through this rigmarole everytime? just throw it to the ducks": Classic. Anyway...

I'm beginning to realise that smaller magnification can = better binoculars. its a strange concept to get you head round but if you get a smaller magnification and a bigger fov you have a better chance of finding the fast flying bird (This is really important for blackcaps and other warblers which never sit still for five seconds). I just think it's ironic that such a good binocular for birdwatching is made by a company that specialises in hunting animals, a task which probably doesn't require the close focus large fov etc.

[Kevin Purcell]

Originally Posted by mcepjg

It's a word I learned from an old Hovis or Warburton's advert and I rather like it. "do we have to go through this rigmarole everytime? just throw it to the ducks": Classic. Anyway...

I think it was Warburtons ...

Originally Posted by mcepjg

I'm beginning to realise that smaller magnification can = better binoculars. its a strange concept to get you head round but if you get a smaller magnification and a bigger fov you have a better chance of finding the fast flying bird (This is really important for blackcaps and other warblers which never sit still for five seconds). I just think it's ironic that such a good binocular for birdwatching is made by a company that specialises in hunting animals, a task which probably doesn't require the close focus large fov etc.

Peter Dunne has written about similar ideas e.g. Binoculars for birding. Pete Dunne NJA 11(3):10-11 fall 1985 which you can find here

https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/w...-L&D=1&P=14839

The tendency is to believe that bigger is better--that the more "power"
a binocular has, the better it will perform. This is not necessarily so
and there are several reasons for this.

First, although higher magnification will increase the size of a distant
bird and enhances the details that will be seen, increased magnification
also magnifies the effects of hand shake and heart beat. The image may
well be bigger but details, as measured by image perception, will remain
essentially the same.

Greater magnification also results in a smaller field of view, a darker
image, and a shallower depth of field--all of which directly affect
binocular performance.

Almost all active birders use binoculars that offer between 7x and 10x.
What magnification you choose hinges on a number of considerations. In
general, lower magnification is to your advantiage if: (1) you are a
beginning birder, unpracticed at locating birds with binoculars; (2) you
are a birder having difficulty holding higher magnifications steady; (3)
much of your birding is conducted at close quarters in woodlands or rain
forests or from the deck of a moving boat; (4) you are a highly skilled
birder more interested in speed than in seeing "field marks" of birds
you recognize by their JIZ (general impression and shape).

Ten power binoculars get the nod if: (1) your hands are steady; (2) most
of your birding is conducted over great distance and open spaces; (3)
you do not commonly include a spotting scope in your optical arsenal.

If you are still undecided between 7x or 10x binoculars, consider a
compromise--like an 8x but NEVER BUY A ZOOM BINOCULAR!

Its interesting that a low magnification bin is recommened to both beginners and highly skilled "JIZ" birders.

And today he'll even recommend 6x for backyard, urban and close woodland birding. Heck, he started with a 6x24 Zeiss (ex WW2) but as he's written as a kid he many, many creative warbler IDs for canopy warblers because you just can't see the field marks.

I think the birding style changes (or should change) with magnification (and the correlates with habitat too). If it doesn't then it can be miserable!

For low magnification GISS/jizz birding behaviour becomes more important: what's it doing; where is it; how does it fly and that with the field marks you see give you the ID.

For high magnification the emphasis tends to be more on field marks. You can get little field marks for sure that you would get with low magnifications at the same distance. I think this is one of the reasons a lot of birder/twitchers went to 10x (and are still there). To get that few second glimpse where you go through the field ID checklist in your head (asymmetric eye ring, wing bars, undertail coverts ... got it).

Ignoring shake (e.g. if you use IS bins at 10x in the extreme case or work out at the gym and use a good grip) and compare them to 7x then you can really see the trade off is "distance at which you can see the field marks and ID them unambiguously even with a fleeting glimpse" versus wider FOV to search and track rapid flitters or ones in flight. It really is the Fundamental Compromise of Optics.

I think most people solve this problem by choosing 8x (and today you can get very wide field 8x and not so many wide field 7x) and compromising a bit on both. Not too bad a choice.

But I'm really starting to like carrying two bins and picking the right one for the habitat and the task especially when you move through multiple habitats on a single walk which I often seem to do (10 feet from a bunch of birds in cover with a 10x with 6 degrees field is not fun ... even when it has IS).

One reason I'm looking forward to the Zen Ray 7x36: there are no compact wide field 7x bins out there. And none of the "top bin" makers offer 7x in a compact (which is a shame).

[dustyview]

Originally Posted by Kevin Purcell

And none of the "top bin" makers offer 7x in a compact (which is a shame).

Kevin: You really should try a pair of the current Elite E2 Custom Compacts. They have come up in several posts, but it seems only a couple of us actually own and use them. I took them out at lunch today and got a good view of a backlit black chinned hummer at a couple hundred feet. Very crisp image.

[Kevin Purcell]

Originally Posted by dustyview

Kevin: You really should try a pair of the current Elite E2 Custom Compacts. They have come up in several posts, but it seems only a couple of us actually own and use them. I took them out at lunch today and got a good view of a backlit black chinned hummer at a couple hundred feet. Very crisp image.

But it's a pocket bin not a compact bin ... I'm talking about 30mm-ish and up bins with a > 4mm exit pupil.

[mcepjg]

Kevin: I'm amazed you get those adverts in the states. It was a good post, I also wonder why there is not much choice in the 7 x 40 or 42 area. I wonder if rather than 2 pairs of binoculars one low mag pair and a lightweight low mag/ zoom scope would give you more "scope". lol. If I had the cash I would get a nikon ED50 and a Fuji F30 to carry around. It seems like a nice lightweight package and I've seen some great results on BF.

[Kevin Purcell]

The problem with scopes if field of view. It's limited and it's one-eyed. I do have an can use scopes either from a should mount or a backpackable tripod.

Canon IS bins are another option as a sort of scope replacement. They look heavy but they replace the tripod so they're "lighter" in that sense.

I currently use a 10x30 IS bin too and that works well especially at distance. So I could see a 15x50 IS and a 7x35 or 7x42 working as a useful pair too.

Lots of choices and all involve compromises

[mcepjg]

Originally Posted by Kevin Purcell

The problem with scopes if field of view. It's limited and it's one-eyed. I do have an can use scopes either from a should mount or a backpackable tripod.

Canon IS bins are another option as a sort of scope replacement. They look heavy but they replace the tripod so they're "lighter" in that sense.

I currently use a 10x30 IS bin too and that works well especially at distance. So I could see a 15x50 IS and a 7x35 or 7x42 working as a useful pair too.

Lots of choices and all involve compromises

I've never tried the IS binoculars before. I'm assuming the IS must work very well if it allows you to hold 15x and give you a decent image. I'm probably going to get a canon IS camera soon so its comforting to know they work well. Of course you are right all do involve compromises and all depend on what you are wanting to achieve and where you want to go.

I currently carry a pair of Opticron Discovery WP PC 8 x42 and an old heavy pair of 8 x 42 Opticron countryman (WA binoculars). Usually when I go out I lend my GF my discoverys because the countrymans are too heavy. Since she tried the yosemite she says she wants a pair. She says she thinks they seem lighter than her compacts in the way they rest (I guess because the weight is spread out more). Ah well if I do get her some at least I might be able to use my discoveries more

[Kevin Purcell]

You should try the Canon IS bins. You get a static picture instead of a shaky bird.

Even at 10x it makes a huge difference for watching and bumps your acuity a little for the smallest features (and items like VID tags or colored bands/rings on banded birds).