[HoosierGuy]

This is my short basic review of the Zen-Ed 10x compared to my Nikon Monarchs 8x and my new Pentax DCF HRc 10x42 Binoculars. I'm not an expert on optics so no fancy stuff in my review.

First off, my first real good pair of binos was the Nikon Monarchs 8x. I was blown away with how clear they were with a nice field of few and clear optics. All the other pair of binos I have tried have been my brother’s cheap binos all with poor eye relief or low field of view.

So, after a month or so with those nice 8x I wanted a 10x. Reading these forums I found out about those Zen-Rays. I saved up the money and bought a pair about a month or so.

To add to this - a few weeks ago my brother got a nice deal on a pair of Pentax DCF HRc 10x42 Binoculars.

So, for the last week I've been comparing the Pentax, Zen-Ray ED, and Nikon Monarchs.

1. I still love the 8x Monarchs because there is very little shaky image. With the 10x Zen's I do notice more hand shake/unsteadiness.

2. The Zen-Ed's are sharper for sure. My brother even notices this. When I got the Zen-ED's we both compared the Zen-Ed's to the Monarchs. The Monarchs do have a nice wide view. But the Zen-Ed's are sharper. You can just tell.

3. The last week I've been comparing the Ed's to the Pentax. Both are 10 power. Again, the Zen-Ed's are sharper. It must be the ED glass in the Zen's. My brother and I went to some wetlands area yesterday and he was comparing them. He said the Zen-Ed's are clearly the superior bino. As for myself - I can tell a difference too. The Pentax seems duller. I was looking at a bird today, Gray Catbird, with the Pentax. The overall view was just duller than the Zen-Ed's.

4. The Pentax and the Nikon seem to be in the same category - solid, nice optics. Both equal, one 8x and the other 10x. But a few steps behind in image quality compared to the Zen-ED 10x.

5. The 10x Zen Ed's are heavier than the 8x Monarchs and 10x Pentax. It would be nice if they were a tad lighter.

6. The Monarch and Pentax does have the Zen Ed's beat on eye relief. I do wish the 10x Zen Ed's had a little more eye relief.

7. The Pentax is a nice binocular for sure. Nice clear image. But when you look thru the Zen-Ed's, the Ed's are more sharp. The Pentax are not junk. They are nice.

8. I think I'm done buying 10x binos. The Zen-Ed 10x is all I need for a 10x bino. Now I want a wider field of view with a steady image. If I get another pair of binos it will be another 8x or 7x with a super wide field of view. Maybe those Zen-ED 7x?

9. I like the eye cups on the Monarchs and the caps on the bottoms. All binos should be like that - loose fitting eye cup on top and two caps on the bottom that always stays connected to the body so you will not lose them.

So, I am satisfied with my 10x Zen Ed’s. But now having a bino with ED glass, I don’t really want to buy another pair that does not have ED glass in them. And I’m wondering – if my Zen-ED’s are noticeably better than my Monarchs and Pentax, are the Alpha binos like Swarovski and Zeiss noticeably better than my Zen-Ed’s?

[Buz]

Thank you for that review. I'm in line for a pair of 10x Zen ED's later this year. Your review only fortified my decision.
Seems like the Zen 7x's are in your future.......

[Tero]

5. The 10x Zen Ed's are heavier than the 8x Monarchs and 10x Pentax. It would be nice if they were a tad lighter.

Yeah, the bulk and maybe weight of the Chinse ED glass makes them sort of at the big end of the 42mm. Only my Zeiss were bigger and heavier.

[HoosierGuy]

Well, I went to a camera store at the mall this evening to get a new strap for my Zen Ed's. Dang it, I bought a strap for $14 and it's too long too and I tried shortening it with scissors and it still is too long/will not work! Arrrgh!!!

I visited the camera store with my brother. He was looking around and when I was buying the strap my brother said - look here, it's your Zen-Rays!!
I said - No it's not. He said - yes it is!

After I paid for the strap I walked over and looked at the binos. They did not say Zen-Ray on them. My brother pointed to the large plastic cap that is on the focus knob. He said - that cap looks like the one on your Zen-Ray.

Then I noticed, it said Promaster on it. I told my brother that's one of the recent Chinese binos that's competing with the top Alpha's now with my Zen-Ray being the most recent one.

Well, I got home and looked at my Zen-Ray's - the cap on the focus knob does look the same. So, are Zen-Ray's and Promaster made in the same factory?

I think the price for the Promaster was $500. No way would I buy binos from a store in mall.

[Kevin Purcell]

Originally Posted by Tero

Yeah, the bulk and maybe weight of the Chinse ED glass makes them sort of at the big end of the 42mm. Only my Zeiss were bigger and heavier.

Tero:

Nothing to do with the weight of the glass but the ZR are longer than most bins so the enclosure is larger and that adds some weight weight. Still they're not that heavy.

The Zeiss FL 8x42 is a comparable bin and is 0.4 oz lighter than the Zen ED so I guess you must to talking about your Zeiss Conquest 10x40 which are 29oz. So the Zen is pretty competitive here.

HG:

Hmmm, I have a Promaster ED than the knob looks nothing like knob on the Zen. They do seem to use the same enclosure/focussing mechanism (that's the thing that's seemed to have enabled this design along with inexpensive ED glass) but I'm not sure that they're all made by the same OEM.

And I’m wondering – if my Zen-ED’s are noticeably better than my Monarchs and Pentax, are the Alpha binos like Swarovski and Zeiss noticeably better than my Zen-Ed’s?

Nope.

Subtly better in the case of the FL. And a little better when you compare stray light. Not compared the Swaro EL to the Zen ED but the former doesn't have ED glass (yet ... see many threads on when it might appear) but already controlled color rather well.

Diminishing returns has set in at this point ... the differences get smaller and smaller.

[denco@comcast.n]

Originally Posted by Kevin Purcell

Tero:

Nothing to do with the weight of the glass but the ZR are longer than most bins so the enclosure is larger and that adds some weight weight. Still they're not that heavy.

The Zeiss FL 8x42 is a comparable bin and is 0.4 oz lighter than the Zen ED so I guess you must to talking about your Zeiss Conquest 10x40 which are 29oz. So the Zen is pretty competitive here.

HG:

Hmmm, I have a Promaster ED than the knob looks nothing like knob on the Zen. They do seem to use the same enclosure/focussing mechanism (that's the thing that's seemed to have enabled this design along with inexpensive ED glass) but I'm not sure that they're all made by the same OEM.



Nope.

Subtly better in the case of the FL. And a little better when you compare stray light. Not compared the Swaro EL to the Zen ED but the former doesn't have ED glass (yet ... see many threads on when it might appear) but already controlled color rather well.

Diminishing returns has set in at this point ... the differences get smaller and smaller.

I think when you say duller you are noticing the difference in contrast. Better binoculars usually have better contrast and once you get used to it it is hard to go back to lesser binoculars. Monarchs IMO do not have great contrast although they are good inexpensive binoculars. BUT once you get used to Alpha binoculars of which I include Zen Rays it is impossible to go back! Monarch's will just seem flat and dull compared to alphas. I have compared my Zen Ray 8x43 ED's to alot of the Alphas and I prefer the view to Leica 7x42 BN's, Nikon 8x32 LXL, Nikon 8x42 LXL,and Swarovski 8x32 EL's. I feel they are as good optically as the Swarovski 8.5 x42 EL's and the Zeiss 8x42 FL's. Some people may be able to discern a SLIGHT difference in these last two but it is really negligible. Of course the Swarovski's and Zeiss may have better ergonomics for some people and the build quality may be a little finer than the Zen Ray's but I don't feel it is worth another $1800.00 over the Zen Ray's. I am looking forward to getting the Zen Ray 7x36 ED2's. Big FOV and alot of the little bugs ironed out. They should be great.

Dennis

[dustyview]

Not to really argue with this, Dennis, but I think personal preference plays a part in how much you like contrast. I like brightness but often find the artificially high contrast in most roof prism binoculars to be unappealing. One of the things I like about the Bushnell E2 rev. porro is it manages to appear fairly bright without the amped-up contrast present in so many (incl. alpha) roofs (same with all the porros I've recently used: my Nikons, the Pentaxs I recently got, and the 8x Yosemite. I don't consider any of these "lesser" binoculars). Up until dark, when I take a pair of porros away from my eyes, I notice that I'm seeing about the same contrast relationships between dark/light borders that I see with my eyes alone. With phase-coated FMC roofs the contrast is artificially high at those same borders, which I don't like. To each his own, I guess.

Originally Posted by denco@comcast.n

I think when you say duller you are noticing the difference in contrast. Better binoculars usually have better contrast and once you get used to it it is hard to go back to lesser binoculars.

[HoosierGuy]

Can someone please post a link to an online store that sells real bino straps that are short where the bino hangs around the breast area and not the belly area?

Thanks!

[FrankD]

And I’m wondering – if my Zen-ED’s are noticeably better than my Monarchs and Pentax, are the Alpha binos like Swarovski and Zeiss noticeably better than my Zen-Ed’s?

Ditto on Kevin's comments. I find the FLs to be marginally better but not the ELs.

..as for your last question...I would start with Eagle Optics. They seem to have just about everything a birder might want. I have a Vero-Vellini (spelling might slightly off) strap with quick disconnects that I use with the Zen EDs.

[Kevin Purcell]

Originally Posted by denco@comcast.n

I think when you say duller you are noticing the difference in contrast.

Oddly, I'm not sure why you think I said duller ... oh you quoted my message but didn't comment on it

I think personal preference plays a part in how much you like contrast. I like brightness but often find the artificially high contrast in most roof prism binoculars to be unappealing.

Dusty: contrast is just the difference between white level (set by the bins transmission) and the black level (set by the scatter in the bin).

The good bins don't have an "artificially high" contrast. They just have very good contrast by keeping the scatter to a minimum (using good AR coatings) and by maximizing the transmission (with good AR coatings and good mirror coatings). Ultimately they can't have higher contrast that a block of air.

The only things you can do in some (passive, color neutral) optics is to reduce contrast. The goal is to minimize that.

Not to discount your personal preference (I'm sure you might not like the look of these bins) but it's not due to anything "artificial contrast". It might be that you don't actually like bright bins.

[HoosierGuy]

Originally Posted by FrankD

I have a Vero-Vellini (spelling might slightly off) strap with quick disconnects that I use with the Zen EDs.

Where does the binos hang at? Low at the belly or higher?

[dustyview]

Maybe I should have said they render a greater perceivable contrast than my eye (brain) sees as natural. I've seen the same thing with camera lens coatings: same film, same conditions, but two contemporary lenses from different makers w/ different coatings will produce images with different contrast, and sometimes that contrast will appear unnaturally high. For example, my new Bushnell E2 7x26s produce a pretty bright image, but my 8x28 Hurricanes as well as the 8x20 Ultravid and Swaro Pocket I recently looked at, all three of which have a smaller exit pupil than the Bushnell and don't appear brighter, have the heightened contrast I've come to associate with most contemporary roof prism binoculars. I suppose it could also be a little CA, but I can switch from one to the other and see the effect I'm describing without noticing a difference in brightness. The next time I can get out with a couple of different pairs (porro and roof) I'll try to pay more attention and see if I can get a better idea of what's going on.

Originally Posted by Kevin Purcell

Dusty: contrast is just the difference between white level (set by the bins transmission) and the black level (set by the scatter in the bin).

The good bins don't have an "artificially high" contrast. They just have very good contrast by keeping the scatter to a minimum (using good AR coatings) and by maximizing the transmission (with good AR coatings and good mirror coatings). Ultimately they can't have higher contrast that a block of air.

[FrankD]

Not to discount your personal preference (I'm sure you might not like the look of these bins) but it's not due to anything "artificial contrast". It might be that you don't actually like bright bins.

This is definitely an interesting point of discussion. I have often found some bins, with slightly lower levels of brightness and contrast, "easier on the eye" than some of the more updated versions with "better" coatings. The image seems much more natural...at least to my eyes (thinking Trinovid vs. Ultravid in this case).

[Kevin Purcell]

Originally Posted by HoosierGuy

Where does the binos hang at? Low at the belly or higher?

Bottom of the bin around the belly button in my case with the VV "man bra" with a Canon IS 10x30 on it.

One of the issues with this (and other man bras) is where the support points stay relative to the shoulder. Plus how much strap length you need to get them to your eyes and still stay attached to the harness.

When I first set mine up I set it for high as a like them on my chest then found that they wouldn't make it to my eyes (the strap wasn't long enough).

This is general constrain of harnesses: the attachment points on the harness have to be mid way between the eyes and where the bin hangs.

I think you might try the Bino Belt (search for links in the forum) which uses an over the should mount and avoids this sort of problem. The problem with the Bino Belt is they don't sell spare clips.

So if you can find another over the shoulder harness system that has interchangeable clips you'll be onto a winner. I've seen one which look like braces coming over each shoulder with a Y section in the back and a central clip on the birders belt. It would be very inexpensive to make. In fact I though this up before I saw one on a birder but never get to ask him who made his one. If anyone knows ...

[falcondude]

Originally Posted by denco@comcast.n

BUT once you get used to Alpha binoculars of which I include Zen Rays it is impossible to go back! Monarch's will just seem flat and dull compared to alphas.

+1. Until I got my EL, I thought my previous entry level binoculars is everything I need. After your eyes are tuned into the comfort and easy of use from high quality binoculars, the flaws from lesser binoculars can be easily picked up.

[FrankD]

I agree to an extent FD. However, I have found that there are times that I enjoy the more compact size and lighter weight of some of the typical "$300 roofs". If they were all just a tad sharper.....

But, if they were, then they would have similar image quality to the Cascade porros.

:-)