[MLoyko]

Ill add the next 5 here. Again Id's from the Muhlenberg collection. (4 birds)

[MLoyko]

4 more (three birds)

[MLoyko]

and the last 4 (two birds)

[rockfowl]

5 - A male Chestnut Wattle-eye

10/11 - A Criniger Bearded Greenbul species, difficult from these, location?

[MLoyko]

Again, I don't think a location was given. I do know that the first flycather in the second set of photos was found in Arizona, in the Huach...can't spell it. We were thinking Greater Pewee for that one.

A lot of these don't have information coming with them. These two threads I just put up are unknowns that students went through and couldn't figure out so now I am trying.

[rockfowl]

Well 9 appears to be a glossy starling, maybe a worn Superb Starling?

[njlarsen]

If the first two photos show the same bird, then it could be a poorly mounted Green-throated Carib. The blue below the green throat should have been a line rather than a spot, and the bill looks large and too pale (normally black) in these photos, but at least it is somewhat close. Does the belly look like it would have been black originally? Due to the differences, this one could also be something else entirely.

Niels

[MLoyko]

Niels,

The first two photos are of the same bird, I just picked a different angle to show the blue patch and yes there did seem to be black on the belly, I picked up on that as well in the lab.

Rockfowl,

Thank you I will pass on all the information given to me by both you and the others when I go in on Thursday.

[MLoyko]

Anybody else have other suggestions for the others not already touched upon..Rasmus?

[Rasmus Boegh]

Post #1
* 1&2: Agree on Green-throated Carib.
* 3: Red-legged Honeycreeper.
* 4: Dicrurus sp. I'm fairly sure it's one of the Indomalayan/Australasian species, several of which can be excluded fairly easily either by the rather heavy bill or the shape of tail. However, that still leaves a handful of possible contenders.
* 5: Agree on Chestnut Wattle-eye.
Post #2
* 6-7: Lots of US experts... I'm not one of them, though without checking a field guide I could probably be convinced about a pewee considering its bill, primary projection & relatively uniform wings.
* 8: Vidua sp. Easily one of the hardest African genera; colour of bill & legs, neither of which are reliable when dealing with old specimens, are generally very important.
* 9: Chestnut-bellied Euphonia.
Post #3:
* 10&11: While it has a resemblance to a Criniger greenbul, I'm fairly sure it isn't. The back & tail are too dull (even when considering foxing) and the bill shape is wrong (broad-based from below, hooked at tip and culmen straight/slightly upcurved; almost like a slighter version of the bill of a Hook-billed Vanga). It looks reasonably distinctive, but right now I can't think of a match.
* 12&13: Ruby-topaz Hummingbird.

[rockfowl]

Originally Posted by Rasmus Boegh

* 9: Chestnut-bellied Euphonia.
Post #3:
* 10&11: While it has a resemblance to a Criniger greenbul, I'm fairly sure it isn't. The back & tail are too dull (even when considering foxing) and the bill shape is wrong (broad-based from below, hooked at tip and culmen straight/slightly upcurved; almost like a slighter version of the bill of a Hook-billed Vanga). It looks reasonably distinctive, but right now I can't think of a match.

Should have known the Euphonia!

Having had another look at 10/11, I'd agree. I was uncomfortable with the broad-base, and the tip, and for that matter, the general shape as mentioned, thought Bleda like at one stage. The throat and nape suggested a Bearded Bulbul, and what was obviously, now faded, bare skin around the eye enhanced that feel - http://www.birdquest.net/afbid/birds...&af_bs_id=1316

Intrigued!

Agree with a Dicrurus species for Pic 4, I did wonder about Balicassiao based on bill and tail shape? - http://orientalbirdimages.org/birdim...187&pagesize=1

[MLoyko]

The name that was on the card for pic 4 was an old latin name that we looked up in a book that has past namesin it I guess and it come up as a drongo. We were thinking Spangled Drongo?

[rockfowl]

Originally Posted by MLoyko

The name that was on the card for pic 4 was an old latin name that we looked up in a book that has past namesin it I guess and it come up as a drongo. We were thinking Spangled Drongo?

Tail doesn't look right despite the age and perhaps flattening, also the bill looks rather large, again might be part illusion /part ageing and shrinkage elsewhere - http://orientalbirdimages.org/birdim...187&pagesize=1

[MLoyko]

Ah I see.

[Rasmus Boegh]

If the drongo is an immature, the tail is of no use and virtually any larger-billed species of drongo would be possible. Assuming it is adult, the species I'm left with are Balicassiao, Greater Racket-tailed Drongo (extensions to the outermost rectrices are often broken off), Hair-crested Drongo, Spangled Drongo, Wallacean Drongo, and Sumatran Drongo. Do note that several of these are quite variable (e.g. eastern ssp's of the Wallacean have narrower tail-fork than the western), and the taxonomy of the Hair-crested/Spangled Drongo group is rather complex with several issues that still are unresolved. E.g. most of what is referred to as the Spangled Drongo on OBI (link in post #13) is actually the Hair-crested if accepting the split, and even within the post-split Hair-crested Drongo there are rather extensive racial variations in bill (very roughly, the northern ssp's are finer-billed than the southern) and tail (the most extreme being the striking ssp. menagei with a deeper tail-fork than *any* other drongo).

[rockfowl]

Very true Rasmus!

I was hedging my bet, though I am familiar with many of the species mentioned, I imagine the many of the tell-tale bits would break off, ie the 'hairs' of Spangled/Hair-crested. Totally agree, many of the OBC images are actually wrongly labelled. A dangerous game I know, but I based the suggestion on a what I could see and a certain amount of historical movement. Some of these specimens I think will remain unresolved.

I'm assuming the drongo is an adult, In my experience, most young drongo lack the 'sheen' of adult birds, instead having much sootier or brown, but dull plumage tones.

[Rasmus Boegh]

Originally Posted by rockfowl

... many of the OBC images are actually wrongly labelled.

That depends on taxonomy. Traditionally the Spangled and Hair-crested have been considered conspecific under the name Spangled Drongo (D. hottentottus), and this is the taxonomy currently used on OBI (a search for Hair-crested Drongo will also take you to the Spangled on OBI). The problem is that some recent field guides that accept the split of these two species have kept on using Spangled Drongo for D. hottentottus (e.g. Robson's otherwise excellent Birds of South-east Asia, though I haven't seen the new 2nd edition and cannot comment on the names used there), but that English name arguably belongs with the split off D. bracteatus (leaving Hair-crested for D. hottentottus). Anyhow, disregarding the issues over the English names, the taxonomy of this group is a mess and needs a thorough review, as several populations are vocally and/or morphologically distinct. It clearly is far more complex than the simple north-west/south-east split into two species (+ other taxa that were generally accepted as separate species several years ago, e.g. Sumatran).

[rockfowl]

Originally Posted by Rasmus Boegh

That depends on taxonomy. Traditionally the Spangled and Hair-crested have been considered conspecific under the name Spangled Drongo (D. hottentottus), and this is the taxonomy currently used on OBI (a search for Hair-crested Drongo will also take you to the Spangled on OBI). The problem is that some recent field guides that accept the split of these two species have kept on using Spangled Drongo for D. hottentottus (e.g. Robson's otherwise excellent Birds of South-east Asia, though I haven't seen the new 2nd edition and cannot comment on the names used there), but that English name arguably belongs with the split off D. bracteatus (leaving Hair-crested for D. hottentottus). Anyhow, disregarding the issues over the English names, the taxonomy of this group is a mess and needs a thorough review, as several populations are vocally and/or morphologically distinct. It clearly is far more complex than the simple north-west/south-east split into two species (+ other taxa that were generally accepted as separate species several years ago, e.g. Sumatran).

I agree, a bit loose in that statement, from experience over a fairly short range in China and then on wintering grounds, it is very complex indeed. I would imagine Robson would now have followed suite, i'll see him next week and find out.

Meanwhile, 10 and 11 are starting to really bug me

[MLoyko]

We have the drongo out on the table now and looking at the tag it has the old latin name of Chibia bratteata

[Rasmus Boegh]

Originally Posted by MLoyko

We have the drongo out on the table now and looking at the tag it has the old latin name of Chibia bratteata

Which is an old name for the Spangled with a typo (bratteata --> bracteata), the problem being that, as noted in earlier posts, quite a few species which now are considered separate species were considered conspecific formerly. The use of bracteata would suggest they followed the split between D. bracteatus and D. hottentottus, but we really have no way of knowing how much the people that tagged the specimen knew about the taxonomy & nomenclature of this group. So, it is probably safest to just limit it to Dicrurus hottentottus (sensu latissimo), i.e. of the earlier suggested species, Balicassiao and Greater Racket-tailed Drongo are out, but the Hair-crested, Spangled, Wallacean and Sumatran Drongos remain possible.

[MLoyko]

Thanks Rasmus

[MLoyko]

Rasmus,

I was told to ask you if you could elaborate more as to why the hummingbird is a Ruby-Topaz?

[MLoyko]

Anybody have anything to add for 6/7 or 10/11.

6/7 was found in Arizona

[Microtus]

Originally Posted by MLoyko

Anybody have anything to add for 6/7 or 10/11.

6/7 was found in Arizona

Really? Is there anything on the label(s)?

[MLoyko]

Originally Posted by Microtus

Really? Is there anything on the label(s)?

Yes, it was found in Huachuca AR. All I remember on the tag was the symbol for female. All I could come up with is Greater Pewee