[bruleke]

Hi Guys!
I am 35 y. and live in Brazil. Believe, this is an amazing country for bird observation, specially if you go to the beach.

But, what binos do I have?
No one. Yes... thats sad.

I cant spend more than 400 dollars.

I spent all the weekend researching for binos.
I read MANY posts here about reviews. But I am still confused (you guys like many binoculars! he he he!)

Here are some models I am interested
Zen-Ray ED2 10x43 (or 8x43) - I dont know. This compnay is new...

Leupold Olympic 10x50(or 8x42) - famous for their quality, but small FOV.

*******************
But, seriously, I couldnt find anything better up to 400 dollars. Even the Nikons Monarch seem to be not so good as these 2 models.

I dont know... I have 400 dollars and a house in the beach where many colorful birds visit me!And they love eating the fruits of my trees.

I have never had roof binos, only porro (zhumell 25x100 and pentax 12x50). So I have no idea which binos are good.

If its not a problem, I would like 2 recommendations, this way I could have (at least) 2 options to decide!

Thanks.

Bruna!

[Tero]

I imagine you live where there are also forests and trees. Look at the number of 8x32 binoculars available. There are a few good ones now. Vortex Viper 8x32 is available now, and I do not know if it is any good.

The main thing for a new pair and an only pair is to catch the birds. You need wide fields, some 400ft and fast focus. They do not have to be absolute sharpest, as long as you can see the bird and the sharpness is rasonable. Even a Monarch 8x36 will do, but not my favorite.

I had an Eagle Optics 8x32 that was pretty good, though the sweet spot was a bit small. Pentax SP in 8x32 is pretty good, but in fact not the sharpest you can get for 400-500. So you have to wait for advice or read all the threads under Pentax, Bushnell and Vortex etc. There are now 8x30 porros and 8.5x30 porros but I wonder about how water proof they are.

Some 8x42 models give a wide field of view.

For the beach, a scope is needed.

[bruleke]

I liked your tips.
I will not consider Pentax and Nikon, as you adviced me. Vortex Viper seems to be fantastic but... exceeds my budget.

I could go with porro too, but I really need something smaller...

THANKS a lot for your tips, but I didnt decide yet...

Bruna!

[Tero]

Here is a short thread on 8x32s
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread....32#post1534844

You can see that the 400-500 is somewhat difficult. There are lots of choices, but you never get all the features you want. It is a price point that needs compromizes and personal preferences.

On top of that, the Chinese ED is tempting. If you can put up with somewaht slow focusing, they are fine optics. Rugedness remains to be tested. My pair is less than a year old, I have 42mm.

[SPARTACVS]

Tero, I'm curious. Why do you recommand an 8x32 over 8x42. For his house on the beach, light might not be an issue but in the forest, I'm sure he can hit some low-medium light conditions.

[Tero]

A good 8x32 is what I prefer overall. Never been a problem for weight all day and I have lots of lifers with 8x32s. I do not own a 8x42 roof at this time. I always shop for them, but never keep them long. The 8x42 Vortex I had was fine, but I needed the cash.

The 10x42 or 10x43 Chinese ED models are fine, as I almost never need fast focusing with those, my birds in winter are distant.

[falcondude]

for starter, you cannot go wrong with 42-44mm binoculars. I will actually recommend this as first choice for birding binoculars if it fits ergonomically. When you know your viewing habit better, you may decide whether a smaller size or a higher magnification is needed for some special occasions.

[Tero]

Sure, 8x42 first choice if no preference, then 8x32 close on the heels! 10x50 and 8x20 last.

[bruleke]

Nice! Really good help!

Yes, everyone says "8x " is the best for me.

But...
For landscape view, for looking at islands 2 miles away, looking at people from a mountain 1 mile away, AND birding 10 meter or 200 meter away, is the 8x really the best?

I decided: Zen Ray ED2.
I will buy on Thursday, no more doubts.

But I really need orientation. I know nothing about my magnification needs though I know exit pupil, FOV etc...

Zillion Kisses, Bruna!

[falcondude]

my two binoculars currently in service are 8.5x42 EL and 8x43 ZEN ED. To me, the wide FOV and better depth of field is more important than magnification. Hence my "unbiased" opinion towards mag power.

[bruleke]

Originally Posted by falcondude

my two binoculars currently in service are 8.5x42 EL and 8x43 ZEN ED. To me, the wide FOV and better depth of FOV is more important than magnification. Hence my "unbiased" opinion towards mag power.

"depth of FOV"
Here is something that I have never heard about.

[falcondude]

Originally Posted by bruleke

"depth of FOV"
Here is something that I have never heard about.

Me neither. Depth of field.

[Steve C]

Depth of field generally refers to how deep the area of fine focus extends in the direction from the point of focus toward you, and from the area of focus from the point of focus away from you. For example, focused on something at 400 meters, yo may have an object as close to you as 15 meters and it may be still in focus at infinity. The center focus function lets us adjust that focus with a flip of the finger, say to that bird in the tree over there at 50 meters. Usually the depth of focus decreases with an increase in magnification. Deeper depth of focus can significantly reduce the need for the cf wheel. Fov is left to right. DOF is what is in focus close vs what is in focus at distance, ie front to back.

[bruleke]

Got it, Steve!
Thanks!

[FrankD]

For landscape view, for looking at islands 2 miles away, looking at people from a mountain 1 mile away, AND birding 10 meter or 200 meter away, is the 8x really the best?

In practical use I think you would find that the 8x magnification is more versatile than 10x (personal opinion). The 8x will do perfectly fine for the situation you described above especially if we are talking about handheld vs. tripod mounted. You most likely will not see more detail with 10x unless you get a steady rest to place them on.

On the other hand, for closer-in viewing, 8x binoculars generally are 'better" because they provide a wider field of view, larger exit pupil and greater depth of field. There is an area of diminishing returns but I believe both full sized 7x and 8x binoculars are still on the top of that "curve" so to speak.

[bruleke]

I bought it!


Zen-Ray 8x43 ED2 roof binos.

I have this question:

My last (and unique) binoculars were a pair of Barska 10x50 Wide angle. 34 dollars. 400ft of FOV.


I just wanted to know how impressed will I be when I look through my Zen-Ray.
Is there too much difference, or not so much?
Sorry, I just dont know!

And I really want to know how good are they, compared to these Barska I had:

http://www.opticsplanet.net/barska-x...s-ab10598.html

[Tero]

Well, you may need a little adjusting to 8x. I still don't know why my Goldfinches are so small at 8x. I like big views of smal birds as well. I had lots of 10x pairs and still have two. The main problem with many of them was dimness.

The colors, sharpness and contrast will be wonderful. Be sure to check for any problems. I have waited too long with a couple of pairs I had liked otherwise. Then I needed to send them for warranty repair later. Both had eye cup problems!

[JohnJos]

Originally Posted by Tero

A good 8x32 is what I prefer overall....

Quick question Tero. Given that you prefer the 8x32 format, what brand and model are you currently using most often? And what are the +/- of this model? Any 8x32 that you've sold that you wish you had kept? Thanks.

[bruleke]

Originally Posted by Tero

Well, you may need a little adjusting to 8x. I still don't know why my Goldfinches are so small at 8x. I like big views of smal birds as well. I had lots of 10x pairs and still have two. The main problem with many of them was dimness.

The colors, sharpness and contrast will be wonderful. Be sure to check for any problems. I have waited too long with a couple of pairs I had liked otherwise. Then I needed to send them for warranty repair later. Both had eye cup problems!

I guess I will ajuste myself :)
So, by far, this model has a superb quality compared to the Barska I mentioned?

[Tero]

Anything will be better than your Barska! I had a 10x50 Barska once. It was decent for 30 dollars but a little dim.

Quick question Tero. Given that you prefer the 8x32 format, what brand and model are you currently using most often? And what are the +/- of this model?

I use two. Pentax SP 8x32..some 40 lifers on that this summer...and more often Bushnell Legend 8x32. I got the Bushnel first. In hind sight a Pentax 8x32 ED version would have been the thing in place of the two. The Legend has sharper image in the sweet spot, but sweet spot is smaller. Legend very similar to the Eagle Optics SRT 8x32, but the external parts of the EO were better built. Eye cups a little loose on th eLegend. I liked the handling of the SRT, though it may focus in the "wrong" direction.

I have heistated getting any more 8x32s. These two are good for birding, I do not pay much attention to the binos after I am out there.

In some situations I wonder how an 8x42 would improve. I may test one of these against a porro on Saturday. I might prefer an EL 8.5x42 to any of these in optics, but they get to be heavier for all day use. I may not want to find out yet.

Or I get the little Raptor 8.5x?

I have liked the ergonomics of the two Pentaxes I have, well built and reliable.

I put a short review here, same as above, they need to edit it.
http://www.eagleoptics.com/binocular...8x32-binocular

[bruleke]

Tero: I am just trying to figure out how many birds you've seen with your binos...

You must be like the "father of birds". All the birds answer to your call and when you need some help, they are there to carry you, talk to you, bring you some nuts he he he.

Seriously, I am anxious for my Zen-Ray. Cant wait to watch some birds with them! Will be my first bird observation!

[Tero]

Tero: I am just trying to figure out how many birds you've seen with your binos...

Some 370, but I would say 70 needed a scope for ID.

[Fireform]

You are going to see a major improvement over the Barskas.

I agree on the recommendation of 8x, too. If you are going to use the binoculars from a rest or tripod you can see more detail with a 10x, but if they are going to be handheld you will see at least as much detail through 8x. This is why handheld military binoculars are almost always 7x--the great majority of people see more detail through the lower magnifications because there is less apparent movement of the image.

[bruleke]

Originally Posted by Fireform

You are going to see a major improvement over the Barskas.

I agree on the recommendation of 8x, too. If you are going to use the binoculars from a rest or tripod you can see more detail with a 10x, but if they are going to be handheld you will see at least as much detail through 8x. This is why handheld military binoculars are almost always 7x--the great majority of people see more detail through the lower magnifications because there is less apparent movement of the image.

Perfect!
I am happy that I made my choice: 8x.


Just cant wait to see the first bird with them!

Believe in me, when I got the Barska, I thought: "Uau! (Uau = wow in portuguese) These have really good image".

Hahaha!

Well, they were my first decent binoculars...

[Tero]

Believe in me, when I got the Barska, I thought: "Uau! (Uau = wow in portuguese) These have really good image".

With your second pair, you well then enter the curse of binocularland. It will just cost more $$$.

Binoculars can be sold, for bino-bucks, but these can only be used to buy more binoculars.