[bruleke]

Recently, I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what is the best binoculars for birding. I couldnt spend more than 50 dollars, that was the truth. But I love so much binoculars that I bought what is written on my signature: a 400 dollars binoculars for a perfect view.

My Girlfriend has a pair of binoculars, they are cheap, chinese made bought in Brazil for no more than 40 dollars. She told me she could view the whole world closer and it is really amazing. Those binoculars are really a piece of sh*t, they have a narrow FOV, they have so much glare that their names should be mirrors and not binoculars! BUT she doesnt know it!

This morning she called me, screaming on the phone saying she saw a bem-te-vi (commom and ordinary - but beautiful - bird in Brazil) so close that she almost could take it! She was very happy that her binoculars could turn that small period of time into the happiest moment of her week!

Sometimes I just think that we worry so much about our binoculars quality, price, reputation that we forget how wonderful it is to birdwatch any specie of bird with a single pair of binoculars... doesnt matter if it is a super-chinese or a super-alpha binos.

Thats it!

Enjoy the birds,
enjoy the view,
enjoy the moment,
the binoculars wont make any happy moment if you treat them as a person and not as a "tool" to improve your view!


Bruno!

[ronh]

Bruno,
You really do have a good point there. I think most "optics snobs" were in your girlfriend's place at some point. I sure was, and I have enjoyed cheap binoculars very much in my life. Using the best bino that you have ever owned is the same thrill, regardless how good it happens to be.

The miracle of enhanced vision is a captivating thing which has amazed me since I first experienced it. But, when you start to analyze it, the optics can take on a life of their own.

Thank you for your beautiful thoughts. But don't let your girlfriend look through your Zen-Ray.

Ron

[bruleke]

Originally Posted by ronh

Bruno,
You really do have a good point there. I think most "optics snobs" were in your girlfriend's place at some point. I sure was, and I have enjoyed cheap binoculars very much in my life. Using the best bino that you have ever owned is the same thrill, regardless how good it happens to be.

The miracle of enhanced vision is a captivating thing which has amazed me since I first experienced it. But, when you start to analyze it, the optics can take on a life of their own.

Thank you for your beautiful thoughts. But don't let your girlfriend look through your Zen-Ray.

Ron

Ha ha ok! I know she will love it... but I didnt receive my Zen Ray yet...

[Tero]

Ha ha ok! I know she will love it... but I didnt receive my Zen Ray yet...

No! You must not let her look through it.

OR, now you know what to save up for to give her at Christamas.

[Sancho]

Originally Posted by Tero

No! You must not let her look through it.

Or tell her she can only look through them if you get to wear her favourite shoes.....

[FrankD]

Originally Posted by Sancho

Or tell her she can only look through them if you get to wear her favourite shoes.....

Alright, now we are going down a scary course of discussion.....

[bruleke]

Originally Posted by FrankD

Alright, now we are going down a scary course of discussion.....

Guys, you're losing the point! ha ha ha!
Stop joking...

PS: I wont wear any female shoes.

[Sancho]

[quote=bruleke;1574888]Guys, you're losing the point! ha ha ha!
Stop joking...

Seriously though, and apologies for the paltry attempt at humour, you are correct in your post. I wish I´d retained your common sense as regards binoculars, which I´m trying to retrieve (my common sense, that is) many binocular-purchases later. Of course, lousy binoculars are simply lousy, but "good enough" are sufficient. I found they became strangely addictive, but once out in the field, of course, it´s only the birds that matter and I forget what binoculars I´m carrying. (Which means there may be hope for me yet).

[FrankD]

You guys bird with your binoculars?

I just sit at home and stare at the underside of trees, at high contrast objects and at my toe nails......

Seriously though, I would concur. If you can take a binocular out and just use it without trying to dissect the image then it is "good enough" in my book. The problem for me though is that there are several bins I can do this with and several that I cannot. Guess that pretty much says it all.

[SPARTACVS]

Originally Posted by ronh

Bruno,
You really do have a good point there. I think most "optics snobs" were in your girlfriend's place at some point. I sure was, and I have enjoyed cheap binoculars very much in my life. Using the best bino that you have ever owned is the same thrill, regardless how good it happens to be.

The miracle of enhanced vision is a captivating thing which has amazed me since I first experienced it. But, when you start to analyze it, the optics can take on a life of their own.

Thank you for your beautiful thoughts. But don't let your girlfriend look through your Zen-Ray.

Ron

Honestly there is little snobbing in birding optics. Sure some peoples are just show-off with their Swarosky but if you compare that to cars, really it's nothing.

I think peoples can be happy with a low cost bino. Hell, I am with my Bushnell legen porro. But If I could afford a better one, I will. Thing is yes, you can see birds with a cheap binocular and have happiness moments. But it will happen more often with better binoculars and it will be an even better mnoment. Not only that but many times it is what will make the difference beetween staying not interested and discovering something. My girlfriend didn't belive it was worth is to put that much money on a bicycle. But she was tired to be far behind so she finally baugh a performance hybrid. Needless to tell you she has discovered bicycle trips.

I mean a good mid-range binocular cost hundreds, not thousands. If you are lucky, it will last you 20 years. Not that interested in birding? A good low cost or a cheap mid-price will cost you 100-200 $. Again, nothing crazy for something that will last you >10 years...

[bruleke]

Originally Posted by SPARTACVS

Honestly there is little snobbing in birding optics. Sure some peoples are just show-off with their Swarosky but if you compare that to cars, really it's nothing.

I think peoples can be happy with a low cost bino. Hell, I am with my Bushnell legen porro. But If I could afford a better one, I will. Thing is yes, you can see birds with a cheap binocular and have happiness moments. But it will happen more often with better binoculars and it will be an even better mnoment. Not only that but many times it is what will make the difference beetween staying not interested and discovering something. My girlfriend didn't belive it was worth is to put that much money on a bicycle. But she was tired to be far behind so she finally baugh a performance hybrid. Needless to tell you she has discovered bicycle trips.

I mean a good mid-range binocular cost hundreds, not thousands. If you are lucky, it will last you 20 years. Not that interested in birding? A good low cost or a cheap mid-price will cost you 100-200 $. Again, nothing crazy for something that will last you >10 years...

For example: I have a pair of chinese binoculars (don't know if they are 7x or 8x or 10x, but they are 50mm). They broke down many times and I fixed it up, but here we are... they made some happy moments in my life :)
I will have my Zen-Ray in a few days, it will make a better "world of view" to me, but for now these chinese are just the best in the world!
Why?
Because they are the ones I have

[FrankD]

I mean a good mid-range binocular cost hundreds, not thousands. If you are lucky, it will last you 20 years. Not that interested in birding? A good low cost or a cheap mid-price will cost you 100-200 $. Again, nothing crazy for something that will last you >10 years...

Sage advice for those of us that spend alot of time trying to split hairs.



....myself included.

[Nick Elliston]

I guess most of us started with cheap binos. I certainly did and used (and enjoyed) them for many years, and it is only in the last few years that I got hold of better quality.

Has that improved my enjoyment of birdwatching? Yes, but it is marginal.

Trouble is, binos can be addictive. Bit like beer really.

[falcondude]

Originally Posted by Nick Elliston

Has that improved my enjoyment of birdwatching? Yes, but it is marginal.

Trouble is, binos can be addictive. Bit like beer really.

+1

[bearclawthedonut]

Spartacvs:

"Thing is yes, you can see birds with a cheap binocular and have happiness moments. But it will happen more often with better binoculars and it will be an even better mnoment (sic)."

That's just marketing nonsense and/or a phony rationalization.

It's not true. Not even a little. You make the moment, not the bins. If you can not enjoy the beauty and wonder of a bird (or anything else for that matter), then Alpha's can not and will not help you. Bins can only get you closer and present the detail that's already there. The magic comes from within.

Bruleke: you have a wonderful young lady friend!

Bearclawthedonut

[SPARTACVS]

Originally Posted by bearclawthedonut

Spartacvs:

"Thing is yes, you can see birds with a cheap binocular and have happiness moments. But it will happen more often with better binoculars and it will be an even better mnoment (sic)."

That's just marketing nonsense and/or a phony rationalization.

It's not true. Not even a little. You make the moment, not the bins. If you can not enjoy the beauty and wonder of a bird (or anything else for that matter), then Alpha's can not and will not help you. Bins can only get you closer and present the detail that's already there. The magic comes from within.

Bruleke: you have a wonderful young lady friend!

Bearclawthedonut

I beg do differ. Define "the moment"? For birding, that moment is highly due to identifying the bird. A thing that is more easy to do with better binoculars. Seeing a bird is one thing, seeing it well is another.

Don't make me wrong. It's just a question of frequency. That means yes, you will have a lot of fun birding with cheap binoculars. It's just better with better binoculars. How much better? Hard to say. Worth it? That is up to individual to decide.

Honestly, I'm not trying to push peoples to buy good binoculars. Neither I'm suggesting that cheap binoculars are worth garbage and you cannot do anything with them. Hell, the Legend I got cost barely more than 100$. It's more that, because there is some very cheap binoculars, peoples seems to think it's dumb to "waste" that money into something that is five-ten times that amount of money. Personnally, I think that passed mid-priced binoculars, it's a question of budget and interest. But when you look into a cheap binoculars and a decent one (lets say a good low-price), pretty much everybody see a high difference. When peoples come to the store and ask me what the 15$ 8x21 are worth, I let them compare with 8x25 H2O, Nikon sportstar or travelite and let them judge by themselves.

[ronh]

You won't fine a lot of support for $40 binoculars on a binocular forum. Maybe there's an unbinocular forum somewhere. If you really love birds, try shutting your eyes partway as you look at them through a cheap binocular. That way even more of the magic will come from within.

I may not love birds in quite the right way, but I prefer to see them very well, personally. I find them so beautiful. I am not really a great birder like some of you, but simply seeing them, not so much checking ID boxes, is a passion to me. Cheap binoculars are, frankly, annoying to use, and give poor views, unworthy of the birds. Life is short. Not everybody can afford the best binocular made, but whatever your financial situation, that purchase should HURT.
Ron

[spacepilot]

Ron, I agree with what you said. I've only been birding for 4 months, and only have 2 low-cost binoculars (Leupold Yosemite 6x30 and Cascades 8x40 porro), so I'm an expert on neither subject. But the main thing that has been drawing me to my usual birding spot is the beauty of the birds. I like to watch the birds with every bit of visual detail there is. The green crest, red eyes, reddish brown mottled chest, and white belly of a perched male wood duck have been an absolute treat for me the last week. Sure I'd like to see more variety of birds and add more species to my short checklist, but when I have a chance to get a good look at the right duck in the right lighting, all else doesn't matter. Again, I'm not an expert on bins, but to get such a view that takes my breath away with the Cascades is so much easier than the Yosemite. Both pairs of Leupolds are said to offer among the best optics at their respective price points, and I totally think the premium of the Cascades is worth it. So, from my experience, you do get what you paid for in bins, if the visual pleasure is what you are after. The trick is, from what I gathered on BF, to find the pair that fit you the best.

Originally Posted by ronh

I may not love birds in quite the right way, but I prefer to see them very well, personally. I find them so beautiful. I am not really a great birder like some of you, but simply seeing them, not so much checking ID boxes, is a passion to me. Cheap binoculars are, frankly, annoying to use, and give poor views, unworthy of the birds. Life is short. Not everybody can afford the best binocular made, but whatever your financial situation, that purchase should HURT.
Ron

[bearclawthedonut]

To All:

It appears snobism reigns, via parroting silly marketing slogans. You can only see what your eyes can show you. The worlds best (not necessarilly the most expensive) binoculars can not show you more than your capable of seeing/understanding. You're looking at an image (generated by light) when using binoculars, not at a bird. You should be far more concerned about your own visual limitations than your binoculars optical limitations. For instance, everyone, no exceptions, is color blind to some degree. No one sees colors the same. What is "red" to you has no precise meaning to me or anyone else as there is no common frame of reference. The detail that you see is far more related to your experience, expectations and of course the illumination, then it is to the cost of your binoculars. So, you actually see with your eyes and your mind. Binoculars are simply a tool to get you closer to the object your viewing. They can not provide happy experiences.

Get whatever binoculars that you want, but don't be so arrogant and foolish as to tell others that they can not have the same or even far greater enjoyment as yourself with inexpensive binoculars. If you don't like them, then don't buy them. If your enjoyment is limited, then that's your limitation, not your binocular's limitation. Think for yourself, stop parroting marketing slogans.

Spacepilot: I thoroughly understand your greater enjoyment when using your 8x40 Cascade's as opposed to using your 6x30 Yosemite's. I too, have found all the Yosemite's, particularly the 6x30's to be very, very disappointing. To be fair, others are very pleased with them. Perhaps pointing to quality control issues? And of course 8x is a substantial increase in magnification over 6x.

Ronh: "...that purchase should hurt." Silly, foolish you. Why are you so threatened by someone's enjoyment of $40 bins????

Bearclawthedonut

[bearclawthedonut]

Spartacvs:

"Si certaines personnes peuvent te faire croire des absurdités, elles peuvent te faire commettre des atrocités."

Could you translate, please?

[Fireform]

Not quite sure what to make of your post, Bearclaw. This is a binoculars forum--of course people are going to be arguing over miniscule differences among binoculars. What did you expect?

Your blanket accusation that everyone here is just parroting ad copy strikes me as arrogant. I can see differences between binoculars that have significant impacts on their usefulness to me for hunting and for birding (pastimes that place somewhat different demands on a binocular) even among the most expensive binoculars on the market. Should I refrain from commenting on them because doing so ruffles your delicate feathers?

I have owned and still do own some very expensive binoculars. I'm very fortunate that way, but I've also worked long and hard for that privilege. They didn't just fall into my lap. I used much less expensive binoculars for many years. Many of the people posting here favor glasses in the mid- or even lower-mid-price level for the very good reason that many of them offer superb performance for the money--binoculars in the the price range from $150-500 have improved dramatically over the last 10 years or so. The most satisfactory all around binoculars I've ever owned were a pair of Nikon 8x30 EIIs that cost me $250 and that I used for about a decade. I would still happily be using them today if life hadn't dictated that I need bifocals.

It's true that you can enjoy birding with poor binoculars, or no binoculars at all. Given the choice, I can't think of anyone who would choose to bird with worse binoculars over better. If angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin arguments get your dander up, maybe you should just click on to another forum or better yet log off and go birding.

[spacepilot]

Originally Posted by bearclawthedonut

Spacepilot: I thoroughly understand your greater enjoyment when using your 8x40 Cascade's as opposed to using your 6x30 Yosemite's. I too, have found all the Yosemite's, particularly the 6x30's to be very, very disappointing. To be fair, others are very pleased with them. Perhaps pointing to quality control issues? And of course 8x is a substantial increase in magnification over 6x.

Bearclawthedonut

I bought the Yosemite after reading positive reviews on BF about its optical performance at this price point. While they provide a decent view, I find the focusing mechanism very frustrating. They are not manufactured to high enough tolerances, and the focus needs constant fiddling to get the sharpest image even when you are looking at a stationary object. So I went back and looked at the Yosemite discussions again, and, what do you know, there were people complaining about the focusing that I glanced over before. If only Leupold tighten the tolerances, the Yosemite would've been a lot closer to all they could've been, and I would be happy to pay $10 or $20 more for the upgraded version.

[SPARTACVS]

Originally Posted by bearclawthedonut

To All:

It appears snobism reigns, via parroting silly marketing slogans. You can only see what your eyes can show you. The worlds best (not necessarilly the most expensive) binoculars can not show you more than your capable of seeing/understanding. You're looking at an image (generated by light) when using binoculars, not at a bird. You should be far more concerned about your own visual limitations than your binoculars optical limitations. For instance, everyone, no exceptions, is color blind to some degree. No one sees colors the same. What is "red" to you has no precise meaning to me or anyone else as there is no common frame of reference. The detail that you see is far more related to your experience, expectations and of course the illumination, then it is to the cost of your binoculars. So, you actually see with your eyes and your mind. Binoculars are simply a tool to get you closer to the object your viewing. They can not provide happy experiences.

Get whatever binoculars that you want, but don't be so arrogant and foolish as to tell others that they can not have the same or even far greater enjoyment as yourself with inexpensive binoculars. If you don't like them, then don't buy them. If your enjoyment is limited, then that's your limitation, not your binocular's limitation. Think for yourself, stop parroting marketing slogans.

Spacepilot: I thoroughly understand your greater enjoyment when using your 8x40 Cascade's as opposed to using your 6x30 Yosemite's. I too, have found all the Yosemite's, particularly the 6x30's to be very, very disappointing. To be fair, others are very pleased with them. Perhaps pointing to quality control issues? And of course 8x is a substantial increase in magnification over 6x.

Ronh: "...that purchase should hurt." Silly, foolish you. Why are you so threatened by someone's enjoyment of $40 bins????

Bearclawthedonut

I'm going to talk to you the way you talk to others.

If you cannot see better in different quality of binoculars, maybe you should be concern about your visual limitation... When I do blind tests to peoples, there is a correlation between peoples appreciation of what they see and the quality of the binocular. Not a perfect correlation but a good one. And for the third time, you (and me) can have a lot of fun with a cheap binocular. But better binocular = better view of what you are looking for (which is the purpose of using binoculars). That is true for the vast majority and especialy true when you compare the low part of the budget binoculars to anything above. Yes there is indivudual variations but I have yet to meet someone seeing better in an H20 over a Monarch.

So maybe you should stop being arrogant by thinking that because you don't see any difference, then others are not as smart as you and are just fooled by marketing gimmick.

Oh, and have a nice day.

[falcondude]

I have used Yosemite briefly when I bought it for my nephew's birthday gift. I found it excellent for the money. But, I am not picky on my optics any way.

[bruleke]

You can have so much fun with only a pair of expensive binoculars. But, sometimes, your friend has a cheaper binocular, made of plastic, and this friend doesnt care about glare, about weight, about the prism but he cares about all the birds, the view, everything.

And you, so worried about the "brand" and the value of your pair of binoculars, may not enjoy the moment just as the "poor guy" enjoys.


Sometimes a more expensive pair of binoculars just makes a better view, but not a better moment. THIS is the point I defend!